-
Unknown A
Jeffrey Epstein was. He had bugs and cameras in his homes, around this country, in the Virgin Islands, et cetera, and he was collectingromat blackmail of various natures. On these powerful people are the dark.
-
Unknown B
Secrets of America's elite being shielded by misdirection and spectacle. My name is James Lee, and you're watching beyond the headlines on breakingoint. For years, the Jeffrey Epstein case has gripped the nation. A sprawling web of power, privilege and unspeakable crimes, possibly even espionage, that continue to raise questions about accountability and justice. Justice Week, the Trump administration raised what was promised to be a groundbreaking batch of newly declassified Epstin files, only to see it stumble into chaos with a botched rollout of already public documents and an Il Time photo op featuring conservative influencers at the White House. One voice cutting through the noise is Ian Carroll, a journalist who's been relentless in speaking truth to power about the Epstein saga and its numerous implications. And he joins us today on Breaking Points. Ian, thanks for your time today.
-
Unknown A
Thanks so much for having me on, James. Pleasure to be here.
-
Unknown B
Absolutely. So let's jump into it and I think we need to start by kind of zooming out just to give folks a maybe a two minute primer about Epstein. I don't know if that's possible, but just broadly speaking, what information do we know already about Epstein and what information do we not know but want?
-
Unknown A
Yeah, I mean, this is still a topic of dispute and debate, but the mainstream take on Jeffrey Epstein is largely focused on his sex trafficking of young girls. And it speaks a lot about the massages that he was soliciting for himself and for other prominent billionaires, politicians, famous scientists, CEOs. Um, and IT. The conversation of the mainstream scope largely stops at him sex trafficking minor girls for a bunch of sickos. And there are flight logs that have been public for a long time. And there's a contact book, a his black book that's beenlished for a long time. But the mainstream conversation for years sort of stopped there and pinned everything on Jeffrey Epstein and Gaine Maxwell, his alleged second command, and as though the crimes were all their own. There's an element that sort of, you know, is edging more and more into the mainstream discussion that it was not just a operation selling pleasure and abuse, but also was a blackmail operation, which is very well documented and very well understood by people that actually have done research on it.
-
Unknown A
That's not really a dispute, it's just often left out of the mainstream conversation that Jeffrey Epstein was. He had bugged and camera, he had bugs and cameras in his homes around this country and the Virgin Islands, et cetera. And he was collecting comprot or blackmail of various natures on these powerful people. We don't have a lot of answers as to exactly who was blackmailed to exactly what degree, because it's hard to sort of tie correlations and just visits to properties or visits to his island as definitive proof that they engaged in any illegal acts with minors or that they were caught on camera doing so. So we're left with a lot of speculation in terms of the scope of that blackmail operation, but that is largely the end of the general public mainstream discussion. But we do know a lot more than that. And the definitive source on it up till now has really been Whitney Webb'two part book called One Nation a Blackmail.
-
Unknown A
And that book has been largely ignored by people that have large mainstream voices because it exposes a lot more of what he was actually up to and who put him into power and who was paying for this operation. And her book is extensively sourced and she cites all of her sources. And I to this day have never seen any credible disputes of her research, her sourcing and her conclusions, which she actually does not draw too many conclusions in that book. And a lot of the people that have done a lot of research arrive at a lot of the same conclusions which indicate that not only was Jeffre Epstein operating on behalf of intelligence agencies, probably plural, but that Israeli influence was heavily involved in putting him into power and establishing his blackmail networks. And obviously the Israeli question is a very touchy subject in America.
-
Unknown A
And so it's been largely ignored. And it wasn't just Israel. He clearly had help within the CIA and or FBI and probably within British intelligence as well. And so it's the intelligence agency linkages that sort of put a curtain around the reporting and tend to be where the line that shall not be crossed. The mainstream discussions, though, by now we very clearly know that from numerous sources, from government to journalist to sort of independent sleuthing, that he clearly was affiliated with intelligence agencies. And that is the veil that we're trying to break through is to get the answers on the other side of that question.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I think you bring up really two good points, Inan, which is one, the heinous crimes, right. We want to see some of these people brought to justice. But the second component, that black male espionage component, trying to figure out who Epstein's puppet master really was. I know that Dan Bongino, the new deputy FBI director, claimed that he was working for a certain unknown country in the Middle east, it's hard for me to imagine it being, you know, Iran or whatnot. But to you, I want to ask you, you know, why. You know, I think this is really important to stress on. Why do you think it's so important to continue to dig into Epstein specifically? You know, how do you think it informs power structures that operate America today?
-
Unknown A
Um, I mean, on the surface level, it's important to understand who he was working for and who put him into position. Because when you're talking about blackmail, I mean, in a regular person's life, we don't have to deal with this concept. But when you're talking about blackmail of a politician, like, for example, the President of the United States, Bill Clinton, who is one of Epstein's primary targets, you're talking about that person effectively working for their blackmailer. Because a blackmailer might not dictate someone's every move. They likely would not. But when a blackmailer makes a request of someone that they have blackmail on, it's very likely, especially when you're talking about blackmail of the severity and disgusting nature that we're talking about here, it's very likely that you're going to comply with every single request you that your blackmailer makes. And so if there's a blackmail operation that has effectively targeted, like a prince of England, the President of the United States, top CEOs at all of our top tech companies, bankers, and beyond, then you're talking about a group that has the ability to push entire nations around, to push entire Fortune 500 companies around,
-
Unknown A
the ability to conduct an incredible amount of influence and pressure upon large parts of our world. It's kind of unfathomable to the average person how much leverage the person that controls the Epstein blackmail really has in our world today. And I think that as we talk more about what is developing right now, we'll be exploring how we're likely seeing that influence, trying to cover up the operation because that influence still exists.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I think that's a perfect segue to talk about maybe what happened Thursday. Given everything that you talked about, I think we have to view it at least with a skeptical lens. Caus. I mean, what we can say for sure is whatever the plan was, it probably didn't go exactly the way they wanted it to because pamb Boni made it seem like there was going to be some kind of huge bombshell. There were influencers at the White House holding up binders, binders of information. But then, you know, what was in there was basically already available online, in some cases even more redacted than what we had already online. So can you kind of break down what you think went wrong with the rollout? Do you think it was just incompetence or maybe they were really hoping that this was going toa satisfy the public.
-
Unknown A
What's your take there at this point? A lot of people, journalists and otherwise online are offering takes as though they know like this is the real version or this is the real version. And I think that is quite shortsighted at this point. I think that we have very little information as to who is telling the truth and what were the intentions and what was a bungle versus what was a plan. And inherently, like we were saying earlier, when you're talking about exposing a long standing blackmail operation that's been targeting our enforcement agencies, our government officials, it is entirely possible, it's in fact very likely that there are many people that are within the current government structure that are supposed to be exposing these files that are actually compromised individuals. It's very likely that there are some people within our FBI, within our government, whatever. Like whichever people it is, it's likely that some of them are actually there to cover this up.
-
Unknown A
That might be because they are blackmaile themselves or that might be because they have allegiances through other reasons, whether it's financial ties, cultural ties, just there's all kinds of reasons why someone might be acting on behalf of the COVID up instead of the exposure. And it's not entirely clear who is doing what at this point. And a lot of people have a lot of theories and I think it's worth listening to all the theories. But it seems in my opinion far too soon to decide who is telling the truth. So when you look at what has happened since disclosure on Thursday, um, and you unpack like what, what is being told to us and if we assume that the general, like the gist of what's being told to us by the people that were there, by Pam Bondi herself, Cash Patel, if we assume that they're telling the truth, a picture does emerge.
-
Unknown A
And that picture is that the meeting was scheduled long in advance and it originally had nothing to do with Epstein files. Theoretically, the influencers that were invited were not told that it had anything to do with the Epstein files. It was ostensibly the new alternative media being welcomed into the White House to, as a gesture of good faith to say that we want to enter a new era of a relationship with the alternative media. And that's a great thing in my opinion, being a part of the alternative media. Great thing. They all arrive at The White House. And simultaneously the Epstein file story is breaking across Pam Bondi's schedule. And she and Cash Patl have been promising release of these files leading into their nominations and confirmations. And so they sort of were. They had put themselves in a position where they had promised to release them within this timeframe.
-
Unknown A
And there's this meeting and it's not entirely clear when and how exactly Pam Booni discovered that the files that she was holding were woefully inadequate and clearly not even approaching all of the files. It's hard for me to believe her official statements because she was saying that she was speaking in interviews as though the files are on my desk. Like there's huge names, like we're going toa really get to the bottom of this. But apparently the files that were on her desk. Had she opened the folder and looked at the files on her desk, she was the Attorney General in Florida during the Epstein trials and during his crimes. And like, like she should be familiar with what constitutes a bombshell in this case. And had she looked at the files that were in that binder prior to giving them out, she would have known that that is not what she was promising.
-
Unknown A
There's a discrepancy there. She included in the binder though, her letter that has now gone out to public that basically says that this FBI is withholding information and they are not complying and they have thousands of documents at the Southern District of New York FBI office. And we are going to get to the bottom of this. That was included in the binder when it was given out. So that that somewhat debunks this narrative that it was like all a fake media storm and Pam Boni was expecting it to like satisfy the peasants. There's this sort of narrative that it's all just a controlled opposition and Pam Bondia is trying to cover it up. But the fact that that letter was included in the binder to me indicates that she understood somewhere between deciding that we were going to disclose Epstin documents and you and have these influencers be a piece of that.
-
Unknown A
And the day it happened she realized that, oh, we're not actually equipped to follow through on that promise properly. So I'm going to put this letter in to acknowledge that we are. So far we've not succeeded and we are infuriated by that and we're going to go after this. The photo op. It seems quite clear to me that the photo op was not intentional or it was like a very deep like double play chess move because the photographers and the videographers that, that capture these influencers walking out with the binders. They audibly in the footage say, who are those people? What's that? What are they holding? It's clear that they were there to film Cure Starmer. And then they captured something else which was these influencers exiting with these binders. And. And it got quite confused quite fast. The influencers were told not to post any or publish anything about it until 3pm that day.
-
Unknown A
And then as soon as they walked out of the White House, though they'd been asked not to, a few of them turned to the cameras and held up the binders and it kind of made a scene. And then quickly the Internet exploded. The contents of the binders, like you say, was old documents that were more redacted than what I can pull up on the Internet right now. There was only a few new things at the very end of the whole binder that were not significant, but they maybe had not been released in that form before. So it was really a nothing burger. And the Internet quickly devolved into people attacking each other as psyops controlled oppositions. Pam Bondi's compromised. Cash Patel is compromised. Everyone's compromised. And it feels an awful lot like a whole bunch of people jumping the gun without enough information. It's entirely possible that Pam Bondi and Cash Patell are completely legitimately trying to do what they're saying they're doing and that there are other bad actors within the Southern District of New York and the FBI at large and other parts of the government that are trying to stop them.
-
Unknown A
That would be what we would expect with a BlackMae operation of this scope. These people will not go down easily. It is entirely possible that there are games being played. I saw that Tim Pool post. He put out a theory the other day that maybe Pam Bondi actually did want that photo op to happen and she sort of discreetly organized it so the photographers would be there so that they would walk out. Because she actually wanted a public outrage campaign because she knew that she was going up against a rogue aspect of the FBI and she needed public support that was outraged in order to legitimize showing up to a section of the FBI with force and making arrests and stuff like that. So far we've not seen any movement like that. So it's kind of hard to know what's happening. But at this point, I think the most important thing is for people to remember that when as we are as the public now in some ways part of a breaking Intelligence Agency investigation, and that's not something that the American public has ever really been privy to, as it happens before.
-
Unknown A
And so we are sort of required to step into a slightly more mature frame of mind and to keep our emotions in check and to not jump to conclusions and to not start trying to oversolve a thing that we're not equipped to solve. Because that's the temptation when you feel like you're so, you know so much because you have a phone and you're on Twitter and you have an opinion. But realistically, like, these things are extremely complicated. And because we're all involved in the public response to this thing in a new way that's never happened before, I think it's incumbent upon us to be patient, to be cautious, to be vigilant, and to think really carefully before we start jumping to too many conclusions.
-
Unknown B
I think that's very good perspective to have. And to that point, right, we don't really know what's going on. So for anybody who says, oh, this is exactly what's going on, they're probably, they're probably wrong. Cause unless you know, everything, you know, there's a lot, like you said, that's really complicated here. So going forward, you know, what should the public expect? If you're kind of just setting the right expectations, what should we expect from any kind of future releases that they do happen? What kinds of evidence are we likely to see? Is anybody going to jail? Just, you know, kind of. What's your prediction based on the patterns you've observed?
-
Unknown A
There's two different, very different ways to answer this question. And one is what do we expect based on history of like corrupt government that never delivers, that always covers things up. It's like, like what's the pessimistic, like doomer version of what will happen? And I think that's the wrong way to look at this for so many reasons, partially because this is a new administration that is very clearly breaking away from the old corruption. We have evidence that they are serious about that basedon how do is acted and what they've said and done. But beyond that, it's just the right thing to do. Because if we don't expect the best from this operation, from this administration, then we give them permission to not be the best version of what we hope they would be. Right. As the public, it's our job to hold them to account and to expect what's right.
-
Unknown A
And they have very publicly stated that they're going to do what's right. So let's go. And what's right is there are thousands of documents, at least there's videos. We know the FBI confiscated tapes and hard drives and disks from Jeffre Epstein's properties. We know that there's extensive evidence that has never been released to the public. And we certainly do not want, like, the video files to be put on the Internet. We do not want, like, they are, by definition, child sex tapes. And we want, A, those people deserve privacy. They deserve every bit of healing and respect and dignity that they can salvage from this. But B, that's illegal, and that's not something that we want on the Internet. That being said, it's possible that there could be some level of trans. Because it's, you know, at this point, it's hard to trust our government.
-
Unknown A
So maybe there's some level of transparency where in the Sean Combs lawsuits, they published photos where everything was pretty much blurred out except for a clear face of the perpetrator, so to speak. Those sorts of things might be worth expecting or asking for so that we have some level of transparency on the evidence we're being told is on these drives is what we're. We have a way to confirm that. But all of the evidence that the FBI has in their. In their possession is still only the tip of an iceberg, because as far as we're aware, the. The investigation was stonewalled and then shut down and then hidden and covered up. And so it's highly likely that there are hundreds and hundreds of potential leads within that evidence that have never actually been explored and acted upon and investigated. And any. Any number of those leads could lead to an investigation into someone like Alan Dershowitz.
-
Unknown A
Epstein's a lawyer. It could lead to investigation into someone like Les Wexner, the billionaire that bankrolled most of the operation, who was running sex trafficking rings out of Victoria's Secret, Abercromby and Fitch and Hollister. So there. And those are just a couple of examples. There's endless examples. And I would imagine that within the files that we have, theoretically right now, I would imagine that there is evidence that points towards these people, but not enough evidence to actually convict in a court of law. And so in some cases, maybe that means there's enough to make an arrest, and then that goes towards conviction relatively quickly. And in other cases, it's probably subpoenas it's launching and d, it's launching investigations. It's starting the process that should have been going on all along, which is these people are pedophiles. They're crimes against humanity. Happening. They are corrupting our government.
-
Unknown A
This is treason. And subversion. And we should be going after every single person who is involved, whether it's as a client or as a co conspirator or as an asset affiliated with this massive organization. And we should follow that evidence wherever it leads, whether it leads to allies like Israel or to executives within our own nation, to our own intelligence agencies. Even if it leads to former presidents of the United States of America, even if it led to Donald Trump, the current President of the United States of America himself, we should follow those leads to wherever they do truly land. But with a word of caution, it's entirely possible that fake evidence has been put into this, this stash or it's been corrupted. We know that some has been deleted. It's important that we do think very critically about what evidence is in there and where did it come from.
-
Unknown A
And we follow up on it with full due process. Because not only will an organization like this attempt to cover up an operation to obfuscate it from the outside, but it is also classic espionage tactics to get inside and to obfuscate and confuse from within as well. So it's messy all around and the American public has never had a front row seat to something like this. And so I think we are all in for quite a learning experience as a nation over the next year or two as these, hopefully as these investigations get underway and we see prosecutions.
-
Unknown B
Well, but I think skeptic or skeptical optimism is kind of where I'm at right now.
-
Unknown A
100%. Yeah, pessimism serves no one except for the perpetrators and the go conspirators.
-
Unknown B
Absolutely. So Ian, where can people follow you?
-
Unknown A
Best place to follow me is on X where speech is currently the most free. My ex handle is Ian Carol's show on X and from there you can find all my other stuff. But yeah, I'll be digging into this as everything develops. I will ll be analyzing the documents themselves. I'll be sharing whatever I can tell and know and trying not to, you know, fall down the wrong rabbit holes of over speculating too much.
-
Unknown B
All right, that, that seems sounds like a good plan. So appreciate you for sharing the knowledge with us today.
-
Unknown A
Thanks a lot James.
-
Unknown B
If you like that video, hit the like button or leave a comment below. It really helps get the show to more people.
-
Unknown A
And if you'd like to get the.
-
Unknown B
Full show ad free and in your inbox every morning, you can sign up at Breaking Points Com.