-
Unknown A
The Joe Rogan Experience during my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
-
Unknown B
Thank you for doing this. This is a huge honor for me. I'm a Giant fan forever, like, since I was a kid, so.
-
Unknown A
Well, are we going? Yeah.
-
Unknown B
So for me meeting, there's certain people I meet where it's like, whoa, okay. And you're those.
-
Unknown A
You're one of those. Well, I have a very different experience. I only know about you, what I've heard. I've never heard your show. I had to ask you are you joke. I somehow knew you were, like, into fitness and everyone out there seems to be a weightlifter and you're out. Or even Danielle seems like she's. She did lower body today, but it's so It's. It's. It's nice to meet you. And people are. Are alternate or. You know, some people are very, very excited that I've gotten come down here to. To be on your show, so.
-
Unknown B
Well, you're an interesting.
-
Unknown A
Other people are concerned for me legitimately. I don't know. I don't know if it's. I don't know why it's a weightlifter thing, because I have no. I have no predisposed. I have no premonitions. But when I walk in here and I see. I gotta look at that. What is that green?
-
Unknown B
Oh, that's the local racetrack. That's the Circle of the Americas, where Formula one race is. That's my friend's place. So he gave me that.
-
Unknown A
Okay. Yeah. I walked in, I saw all these Hunter Thompson things. I felt automatically like, okay, well, this guy can't be a complete disaster. And then I walked down the hall, and there's Hunter wearing a hat that I gave him.
-
Unknown B
Oh, that hat with the gun?
-
Unknown A
Yeah, the one where he's in a cockpit?
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
That's a dog hair hat. That's dog hair.
-
Unknown B
It's made out of dog hair.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. And he got such a kick out of it because when it rains on you or snows on you like it would in Woody Creek, you come in the house and you smell like a wet dog. And he loved, like, doing that. People, what in the hell? You know? That's the dog right there.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Oh, so this is. Are you filming this too? This is. Whatever you do.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown A
So, yeah, there he is. There's that dog. It's got the head, like, big, like, tie things you could tie under your chin.
-
Unknown B
What year was this?
-
Unknown A
This is. Wow, look at that one.
-
Unknown B
Lawyers, guns and money.
-
Unknown A
Those are later ones. Yeah. He did scopes for a long time.
-
Unknown B
That was. He had hearing protection then too. He was learning.
-
Unknown A
Well, no, we're all learning something about maybe what. That one there with the dog. Yeah, yeah, that's probably. Yeah, it was earlier. Blind, Blind Bat. Where's that? That's funny. It's a rep. It's a historic piece, I guess.
-
Unknown B
When did you meet him?
-
Unknown A
I met him. Let me drink your magic coffee here.
-
Unknown B
Whose coffee is Larry Hamilton? Superfoods.
-
Unknown A
I met him. It was one of those years. Maybe it was after my first real year on Saturday Night Live. Maybe it was 1977, like the spring, summer of 77. I was asked by Lauren Michaels, the producer Saturday Night Live, if I would. I had to go to. Our season was head ended. I'd gone to California. And he asked if I would drive his Volkswagen convertible Bug back cross country for me. Like, yeah, sure. Well, you know, a week or two later, it's like, where's my car? Like, you didn't give me a time on it. You know, I visited people on the way, so I made some stops. I never. I visited my friend John Thomson in Reno, biggest little city in the world. And we were getting, you know, threw our cups out the roof and stuff like that. Had a really nice time there.
-
Unknown A
And then I want to go to Aspen. I never been to Aspen before. And so I went to Aspen and stayed at the Jerome Hotel. I can talk like this because the show's like endless, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So went to the Jerome Hotel, which was like the place to go back then. It was off season, which is the best time year to go to any resort town is like when all the tourists are gone and the citizens regain control of their town for a while.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So the Drone Hotel, which would have been full of like knucklehead skiers from anywhere, was only full of like the people that work the town and lived in the town and they took over the bar and they took over the swimming pool, which was outside. So that's. I was there and it was just. I remember being there and they were like beautiful girls and this really funny guy and I didn't know who he was. And we just had the most fun, you know, making girls laugh. That's kind of what may or may not have been the reason I was brought here. But, you know, that's. So we just had the most fun doing it. And then we had this sort of episode where, you know, we didn't escape act. And it was. It had, you know, consequences. I started talking about an escape act, underwater escape Act.
-
Unknown A
And I felt like I could do anything. You could escape underwater.
-
Unknown B
Oh, no.
-
Unknown A
And I said, yeah, I think I could do it. I think I could do it because you just. So we agreed to. I agreed to be a subject. And you have to know I did not know who this guy was. I just thought he was, like, a funny guy. So. And we were, like, showing off our girls and stuff and being stupid, and it was fun. We were just having fun. So I was tied with socks to a lawn chair and lowered into the pool. But just before, when I said, hey, just in case I want to take a breath while I'm untying my sock knots, I would move me over here to where it's like, six feet, you know, so if I have to stand up, you know, I can take a breath and go back down and continue my untying, you know. So I went in and, you know, I was untying, and I could tie some knots, you know, even with socks.
-
Unknown A
So after a little bit, I thought earlier, you know, maybe I'll just take a quick breath and go back down. Well, I stood up. Well, try it, Joe. Try to lash yourself through a chair and try to stand up. Well, I'm. I'm a little over six feet, but if you're tied to a chair, you don't get to fully extend.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
Your calves any more than that. So tied to a chair, I'm only, like, five.
-
Unknown B
You couldn't get five, eight, or something like that.
-
Unknown A
And I just. It was funny to see, like, that camera shot of, like, there are people up there, and I can't reach them or speak to them because I'm still underwater. So that's when I started to work more feverishly on the. Feverishly on the knots. And I kind of was going, hey, hey. You know, this is.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
You know, I'm kind of leaning with my head, like, push me down to 5ft instead of 6ft, you know, so. But he was strong enough, and because I was buoyant in the water, he just picked up the chair out of the water. So I lived through it, but it was. It was a funny way to meet someone. And the next day, I found out that this was Hunter S. Thompson.
-
Unknown B
He never asked of his name.
-
Unknown A
No, he never asked me my name. I don't know that he knew I was either. You know, I think he thought I was just a funny guy. And we were kind of like, holding court and being funny.
-
Unknown B
Everything starts with good health. That's why AG1 is a great addition to any morning routine. And Why I partnered with them for so long. One scoop once a day. Simple, research backed and designed to support your whole body health. It actually tastes great. You can forget juggling multiple pills and supplements. AG1 is a more in one solution that combines a multivitamin superior B complex, a blend of superfood more and more importantly, AG1 prioritizes using nutrients that are already in their bioactive form so your body can use them easily. Just mix it with cold water and you're set. No hassle, no guesswork. It's never too late to create a new healthy habit for 2025. So try AG1 for yourself. And right now, AG1 is offering new customers a free 76 gift. When you subscribe, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2 and five free travel packs in your first box.
-
Unknown B
So make sure you check out drink ag1.com Joe Rogan that's drinkag1.com Joe Rogan Check it out. That must be fun for you though. Like it's. I enjoy when people don't know who I am. Like, it's very rare.
-
Unknown A
Preferable.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, it's not. But you have figured out this way of navigating life where like, you're not a cell phone guy. You probably don't even have email.
-
Unknown A
Do you know? I have them. I have these things now. But if you have children, you have to have a. You have to get a cell phone.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
Because they will not answer a telephone, but they will answer a text. So that's. I had a breakdown.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. But you've managed to stay blissfully detached in some sort of way.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, my email is aol.com. yeah, so that's, that's, that was my concession to it.
-
Unknown B
But one of my favorite things you did with Hunter was when it was a feeling of some sort of documentary or something or is in a documentary, the footage is. And you're going around trying to convince people that Nixon got a bad rap.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Yeah, that was good. We were trying to, we were trying to write something funny. I was with my friend Dick Lucci on that one and I can't remember like two or three of us that were trying to write this thing and we rented a, like a klieg light, you know, like a big Hollywood premiere, kind of one of those giant lights that they flash up in the sky. You know, you don't even see them very much anymore. But. And we were just outside the chateau Marmont where 100 had a room at that moment. And, and we were doing, we were excited Because Nixon's back, you know, and we were interviewing alleged people on the street, men on the street, saying, what do you think about this? Because it was after Watergate and Nixon had basically broke down and, and Hunter had a, like a powerful hatred of Nixon.
-
Unknown A
Really didn't like Nixon crossbody. I just remember Dick Bliss saying, well, I'm excited. He's tanned, he's rested and he's ready. I still, I still say it all the time. I just. I say it about myself all the time because I think it's funny. How are you, Bill? I'm tanned, I'm rested and ready. But saying it about Richard Nixon, I thought was a really brilliant thing to say.
-
Unknown B
Well, anyway, it became a common phrase. Yeah, people use it all the time this day. Probably not even knowing the origin.
-
Unknown A
That's right. Yeah. And it's you who did it. And, and we, we weren't there for like 45 minutes before. Like, I work in the industry and I know you have to have a permit to have that light on. I mean, there were people, they came at us, we were going, concerned for about one hour tops. And that was with like professional argumentative people like Hunter and myself going, that is a fabulous watch you're wearing. Would you get that? You know, just anything to keep this thing going and to keep the cameras rolling on our super stuff. But. And demands. But yeah, that's. That was one of the things. I had a lot of fun with the guy. Really. He really was a lot of fun. He really could make a lot of fun.
-
Unknown B
I really wish I met him. He's one of those people that just really wish I met him.
-
Unknown A
Well, you can still read it.
-
Unknown B
Oh yeah.
-
Unknown A
There's still so much more stuff that I didn't had any read then. It just keeps appearing. There's things are so beautiful that he wrote that that are good and you know, people text me things and say about what's going on. How suppression he was about things a long time ago. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
Dead on about so many things. I mean, you could take a lot of his commentary on politics from 1976 and apply it easily to today. You know, Fear and Loathing on Campaign Trail is one of the best books ever on the American political system. Just like what it's like when people run.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, it's a. To me, it's a better book than Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which is really fun. But yeah, the campaign trail book is so insightful about America and, and about Americans. That's great reading.
-
Unknown B
The movie was fun. Fear and Loathing was fun. It was just. It was a great introduction to a lot of people maybe, that weren't aware of Hunter. Like, maybe then you'll start reading his stuff. But it's. It wasn't all, you know, chaos and acid and seeing lizard people in the bar. It was. There was even. There's moments in Fear and Loathing the movie where, you know, he. There's this one thing where Johnny Depp is the typewriter. Or is that in the movie? Or is that in the documentary? Where is that the typewriter? He's talking about how the 1960s, there was this great wave of change and then.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, the high water mark. Beautiful, beautiful piece of.
-
Unknown B
Oh, my God, it's amazing. And when Johnny Depp is saying the way he's saying it, it's like. It's so beautiful.
-
Unknown A
And Milan, it's about the most famous. It's the most famous one.
-
Unknown B
Grab the headphones, let's take this in.
-
Unknown A
Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years? Six? It seems like a lifetime. The kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle 60s was a very special time and place to be a part of. But no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time, in the world, whatever it meant. There was madness in any direction, at any hour. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. And that, I think, was a handle. That sense of inevitable victory over the forces of old and evil. Not in any mean or military sense. We didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. We had all the momentum.
-
Unknown A
We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west. And with the right kind of eyes, you can almost see the high water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
-
Unknown B
God damn, that's good. I mean, that is just an amazing piece of writing that so perfectly captured that very strange moment in time where the anti war, the peace love movement just got drowned out by the Nixon administration.
-
Unknown A
It's a beautiful piece. It glistens your eyes to see not just the thing of Hunter and the words that he said, but seeing Johnny and how close Johnny and Hunter became, how much they love each other and how much they share with each other. It's a really beautiful piece. Thank you.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, it is a beautiful piece. And It's. It's just so perfect. It. Just perfect.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, he got it. He really got it.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. It just encapsulates that. That time, you know, and it's just. Thank God there was a guy like him around to document it from that perspective, to give you this, like, insight and that, the way he did it with gonzo journalism, where he just would have real facts mixed in with fiction. You couldn't tell what was what, and you had to be in on it to understand what he was doing.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. You had to enter the event to comment on it. You had to be a part of it.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, yeah. You played him.
-
Unknown A
I did play him.
-
Unknown B
We were talking about before. I loved it.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. We're a buffalo room.
-
Unknown B
Was that weird to play a friend?
-
Unknown A
It's a lot of responsibility.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
I mean, it was. Any actor that has to play either a living person, especially a living person, or a. A famous person has a real responsibility to. To that person. You know, you can't just be that person for 90 minutes. You have to realize that person was that person for 60 some odd years or 70 or however many years the person was. You've got to try to get all that into your hour and a half or two hours. You've got to try to take in as much as you can so you're not lying, you know, at least you're doing the best you can to say, this is who I think he was. This is who I think that person was. She was. He was.
-
Unknown B
Did you run any of it by him? Did you try to talk to him as him?
-
Unknown A
Well, he was living in the guest house.
-
Unknown B
So you were around all the time.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, so I would go to work and I would come home, and then we would stay up and sort of. Just an hour or so before, maybe an hour and a half before, two hours before dawn, he'd have a. A nyquil in scotch in a hot tub and then go to sleep. And then I had to get about 90 minutes. And then the teamster was knocking on the window saying, billy and I'd have to go to work. That's what it was like while we were shooting the movie. W. And he appears in the movie briefly. Appears in movie briefly. I can't remember all, but he appears in the movie briefly. And we did together. We wrote a scene. I was always constantly changing. John K. Wrote the script, but I was always playing with it and Because I was, like, being informed more, you know, and I.
-
Unknown A
That's what I did anyway. I just pretty much, you know, I felt the freedom to change anything. But we did write a scene. Hunter agro scene. That was late in the movie. Pardon me. They gave me these beautiful, massive things. Cough drops.
-
Unknown B
Oh, thank you.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. So he was in a lot of it and the editing of it. You know, we can secretly say that too. And. And the, and the. You know, it was a lot of. There was a lot. He was really involved.
-
Unknown B
Very nice.
-
Unknown A
So good shot.
-
Unknown B
So you're saying he wrote a scene you guys wrote.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, we wrote scene together. Yeah. Which was encountering Nixon in a urinal. Because he did have a moment with Nixon where. Dilemma, remember?
-
Unknown B
Yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown A
And he was told he could not speak politics. They could only talk NFL football.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Which Nixon was rather, you know, knowledgeable about, you know, cop. It was like. Yeah, the guy really studied it. And. And George Allen. It's in the book, you know.
-
Unknown B
But yeah, he.
-
Unknown A
Nixon even wrote a. Designed a play that he gave to George. Allen was the coach of the Washington Redskins back then. And it was like. It was. They lost like 10 yards or something on the play, but Allen actually played. Ran the play.
-
Unknown B
That's crazy. It's just also insane that they would let Hunter get in a limousine with the President. Like, just that alone. Like who, you know, who greenlit that.
-
Unknown A
Who thought that he'd been on the. I mean, he was on the campaign trail. He also, for whatever he was, the people who knew and you know, like secret service guys. He ever run into him, they like read people for a living. This is what they do. You know, they read people and they can really burn a hole through your head and your body just looking at you. You know, they'll give you this one. You know, they'll just really burn you. And, you know, he'd been on the tour. The tour. He'd been on the road with them. They knew who he was. They knew what he was after hours and they knew what he was during hours where the people who were really smart knew. This guy's really smart. This guy's really smart. He knows politics. And you can't try to dumb down. You can't try to like big time him because he'll kill you.
-
Unknown A
He'll chop you. He's got the words to answer and he has the intelligence. So he was. He was a force. People knew he was. You know, even the. You know, to get information, you got to go into the people who work for the guy. You know, he saw the people work for the guy, know who he is. And they've already established that they have a relationship with him. They can Speak with him. He's talking a certain way. There's a reality check, you know, if you're running someone's political campaign, you have the best jokes about the campaign, you know, not Hunter Thompson. Maybe you have the best joke because you've seen it all. You know how stupid things get and you know, if you can be realistic and savvy about those things and people trust you.
-
Unknown B
Well, it's still pretty extraordinary that they also got him to agree, or at least thought he would agree, that he would only talk about football.
-
Unknown A
Well, he knew if he blew it, that was it and that was going to be the end of it. And it was only, you know, I don't know what month it was, but.
-
Unknown B
There'S more coffee in this.
-
Unknown A
Oh, is that your stuff?
-
Unknown B
No, that's everybody's.
-
Unknown A
Okay, well, we'll try to fix it.
-
Unknown B
I just feel like you're surprised.
-
Unknown A
It doesn't have to be super. I keep coffee for days, at least two days. If it's not hot, keep drinking it. Keep drinking it. Yeah, that smells good. What kind of shot?
-
Unknown B
Black rifle coffee.
-
Unknown A
Where's that come from?
-
Unknown B
It's an American company, veteran owned company that. Made by real coffee nuts that travel around the world and find different blends and different.
-
Unknown A
It smells good.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. It's just that that meeting in the limousine is like one of my favorite meetings because it just. You could feel how weird it must have been for Hunter to be sitting in a limo getting a ride with Nixon and they're just talking about football.
-
Unknown A
This is happening. This has been happening in my life anyway. I'm sure it's happening in everyone's life. The last gotta be 10 years where you meet people. We have something in common. We gotta. We've gotta. Something we gotta get done, you know, but if we talk politics, we're leaving the rails, you know, all hell's gonna, you know, we're not gonna get along. We're not gonna get anything done. We're never gonna be friends. And. And you know, it could be worse than that. We could be. We could be adversaries or even enemies or.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
You know, so that. I mean, it's. When you mentioned. It's like I go places where. And I'm sure you do too, where you just can't talk. You just don't want to talk politics with people because there are people that are, you know, whose politics can be the exact opposite of yours completely 12 to 6. And yet they're people that have lived lives that are so extraordinary and so enormous in terms of what they give to the world and the planet. And you think, how, you know, why would I, like, ever want to get how? It's a mystery. You know, it's kind of a mystery, but it's. If you don't, like, value that first instead of your kind of political, you know, handkerchief, you know, you're. You're making more of a mess. You know, that's kind of what's, you know, that's. That's. I feel a lot about what's going on in anywhere, everywhere.
-
Unknown A
You know, that people are leading with their. Their handkerchief and not their. Not with their whole self. You know, what they understand about what living is.
-
Unknown B
I agree. 100. I think that we're just too tribally divided. And people look at it like it's us versus them. They enjoy the comfort of being a part of a tribe. They lock on to whatever ideologies the tribe support, and then anybody who opposes that is somehow the enemy. And it's just a. It's a division tactic that's been used by the people that actually run the government. The actual world itself. The real people of this world, especially people this country have mostly share the same common core needs. You want to be healthy. You want to have a good family. You want to be able to make a living. You want to live in a safe place. You want your kids to be able to go to a good school. You want everybody to prosper and have a good time. That's most of what life is.
-
Unknown B
All this other that people get so goddamn caught up in, most of it has very little to do with you. And you get locked into it like it's 100 of your identity. And the next thing you know, anybody who opposes you is Hitler. And it just gets.
-
Unknown A
That's true.
-
Unknown B
It gets so tough.
-
Unknown A
Gets me about a lot lately, doesn't it?
-
Unknown B
Yeah, it's a good.
-
Unknown A
But you sort of started it by saying, by bringing up that quotation of hunters, which is so. And I think about all the time. I can not. But I think about it regularly. Like, what was that. That force that. That movement had, that anti war movement, whatever that was, you know, it wasn't perfect. You know, it wasn't perfect. I think the thing, if I had to regret anything or anyone regrets anything about it was the sort of hostility that was shown towards the actual servicemen, right. Most of whom were drafted, you know, to fight. You know, so those service people had an experience that I will never have. I was in a military movie. That's as good as it ever got for me. But there's the thing about being in war together with people is everybody hates war. Who could hate it more than someone that was there?
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
But the sort of camaraderie that you had is an experience. I'll never have that. I'll never have that thing that, you know, Rambo had, you know, I'll never have that thing. And I don't think that. I think that the sort of. There could have been more vision about who's. Who we're talking to or who. Who we're talking to about whatever kind of change you want to make. And so that the agents of it are not necessarily the architects, like you say, the people who are making this tribal thing, they're not the agents of it. You know, they're the architects of it. And it's. And how do you. How do you jump over or how do you, you know. You know, excuse or not excuses in the word.
-
Unknown B
But how do you unite.
-
Unknown A
Miss. The people that are the agents who are just people that have a job or whatever it is, they're doing their work to survive and live whatever it is. How do you get to the architects with whatever you feel is. Is that what could be a shared experience and get them to like, sort of dissolve the creation of the tribal world? I think it's you. That's a great question. You know, you have people on here, I guess, that know, you know, or think about those things and have the ability to do something about. I don't think I have the ability to do anything more than something for myself. Mostly, you know, you do because you.
-
Unknown B
Have the ability to express yourself, and you're an example. And a lot of times when someone's a very reasonable, intelligent person like you and you express yourself, other people get inspired to maybe reexamine the way they're looking at things.
-
Unknown A
Well, that's. That's a nice hope. I hope that maybe that. I think that'll happen.
-
Unknown B
I think that's maybe one.
-
Unknown A
Back at you then. Okay.
-
Unknown B
Because part of our problem in this country is that we're incompet competition every two years.
-
Unknown A
Every two years.
-
Unknown B
You have midterms elections every four years. So we don't get a break.
-
Unknown A
We don't get a break from these people.
-
Unknown B
No, we don't get a break. We don't get a break from division. We don't get a break from propaganda. We don't get a break from new threats. We don't get a break. It's like every day it's a new thing, and it keeps us completely in this constant state of stress and. And anxiety and also this fear of being overcome. Like your side's going to lose. Yeah, it's a very, very stressful. And it's not healthy for human beings to be constantly in a state of competition and stress. It's bad for. And then on top of that, you have. Most people are addicted to social media, so you're constantly getting inundated with the worst things in the world all day long and you're freaking out. It's terrible for you.
-
Unknown A
It's terrible for you. Cry now. You're gonna cry. Okay. No, it's. But it's. It's true. It's. Someone's gotta. There has to be some sort of a new. I don't know if has to be a club, but there's got to be some sort of new. You know, it used to be music, I think music played such a big part of. Of whatever that movement was. Whatever you call the peace movement.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
The hippies or. You know, whatever it was. It was. It was an extraordinary moment in time. And the music was part of the. Part of the experience and part of the. It brought the message and it sort of. It crashed through everybody's brain. You know, it wasn't. There wasn't a side to it. It's like, what were the soldiers listening to in Vietnam? Jimi Hendrix. You know, we're all listening to the same stuff. No matter where you were. Yeah, no matter where you were, you were listening to the same music. No matter what your politic thing was, the music sort of told the story and sort of suggested a possibility. So.
-
Unknown B
And the music was so much different than the music of the past.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
And it was like you go from 1959 to 1969, you're dealing with a completely different dimension. And it's because it was all psychedelically inspired. And that was another thing the Nixon administration did. They passed that sweeping schedule. One psychedelics act made everything illegal and just threw water on the whole movement. And then everything changes. Then you have the 70s music starts getting weird. The 80s completely falls apart. Cars start looking like people start dressing stupid.
-
Unknown A
Now you're talking. Yeah, now you're talking. It's a real language. You know, it's like when I never tied it all to the. That sweeping thing. But. But when you revisit that, you realize how much harm that did that. That kind of lawmaking. But let's all agree that the cars don't look as good as they do. Okay, let's. Let's watch who's. Who are Those people that say they're really good problem solvers. I see them every once in a while and they go like, how's he doing? I said, well, first I say, what can we agree on? Okay, so we can agree that cars don't look so good no more, you know. Well, it used to be that every single year, every single car looked different than it looked the year before.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
And that's mind boggling nowadays to think about that. And even now with the cars are made of, I don't know, plastic. What are they made of? Nothing. They're not made of steel. They did it with steel back then.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
And now they're made with, I don't know, some sort of carbon something or other. And you would think they would be able to like. I don't know what a 3D printer is. I have to confess, I have no idea. Yesterday I have no idea.
-
Unknown B
What's four feet long?
-
Unknown A
The biggest one is four feet long.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, that's what Elon, I'm saying you can't make giant things.
-
Unknown A
You can't make anything four feet.
-
Unknown B
I don't think so. But I mean maybe there's some.
-
Unknown A
I mean if you have a car, if you have a fender bender, there's like seven parts that you have to replace.
-
Unknown B
But that's also because they're better structurally to withstand impact. They have these crumpled layers and they're designed in a way that makes it safer for you. They're a lot safer than old cars. I.
-
Unknown A
And the sound systems are better. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
But new cars look great. New cars are awesome. There's a lot of like really good looking American cars, a lot of really good looking German cars. What happened in the 1970s, the 1980s was a drop off, a significant drop off from the 60s. The 60s cars are some of the best looking cars of all time. They got 65 Corvette, greatest looking cars.
-
Unknown A
It was a 62 Corvette.
-
Unknown B
Oh, those are beautiful too. Model one, the first one, generation one. But like, you know, the Camaros and Barracudas, like they made beautiful wild looking cars back then. And I think a lot of that had to do with just the, the way creativity was encouraged in the 1960s. It was more free flowing. The music was completely radical and different. Politics was radical and different. And that's why they passed those laws. They passed those laws to stop the anti war movement. It was civil rights movement and the.
-
Unknown A
Guy put in charge was a man who had absolutely no qualifications. Who had no qualifications to do any of it. No, it's kind of a, it's a. I've got someone friend that's been trying to get me to do a movie about it. But the person responsible for making all the laws was someone who had absolutely no background in any of the fields, no knowledge whatsoever. Just a total huckster. Yeah, they got himself out in front.
-
Unknown B
Well, they probably had mandate. They gave a mandate. This is what we're going to do. This is the plan. We're going to lock up all these hippies.
-
Unknown A
I'll carry the flag. I'll carry the flag. Yeah. Whatever it is, you know, I'll run up the hill.
-
Unknown B
Exactly, yeah.
-
Unknown A
Well, I heard that Buick is going to make a car and I just could be wrong, but I heard they're making a car next year that's not going to look like any car ever. It's going to be like a brand new, whatever the hell, 25 or 26 Buick. And it's not going to look like the 24 or 5. It's going to look like its own individual thing that they're going to try to reap, to re. To recommence the idea of making a new car every year. You didn't hear this?
-
Unknown B
No. Like a completely new kind of model. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Like the idea that you make a car that look. Didn't look like every. I mean like you can look at a car and go like that's a Volvo, but that part of it looks like a Mercedes. That part of it looks like an Infiniti. That part of the car looks like, you know, a Toyota. That kind of, you know, you've heard probably the story about the. What's that car called? The Ford that's got a animal name. Taurus.
-
Unknown B
Taurus.
-
Unknown A
No. There's a story now, it could be apocryphal that the Ford Taurus. You never heard this one? I thought you were like this guy. Well, the Taurus, yeah, the Taurus is like, it's not the most beautiful car in the world, but it was a huge seller for Ford. They sold a lot of them. And the story is that these guys at Ford designed a car and they took the rear quarter panel from this automobile, the fender from this, the back fender from this, the rear windows from this, and just did a composite of all these different cars. And then the car was this car's and we'll call it the Taurus. And they presented to Ford who went, we love it. And then proceeded to sell hundreds of thousands of them. And then this is a story like where's your phone calls here? Fake call number one.
-
Unknown A
You Heard about this. No one's ever heard this story. You've never heard this one?
-
Unknown B
I've never heard that. No.
-
Unknown A
That's it.
-
Unknown B
It makes sense.
-
Unknown A
You can believe it. If you look at the car right now, that they are absolutely like, look at that damn Volvo. It looks exactly like a three year ago Mercedes or something like that. They just really just steal.
-
Unknown B
And Jamie, pull up 2024 Shelby Mustang Super Snake.
-
Unknown A
So they're still better yet. Roll it in here.
-
Unknown B
Just check it. Check out what this looks like. There's cars that they make today that are unique looking and look badass.
-
Unknown A
I bought a Shelby back when I first had a paycheck. They're such beautiful cars.
-
Unknown B
That's. Oh, look at that. Come on.
-
Unknown A
That kind of funny. Funny. When I first look at it, it looks a little Chevy to me.
-
Unknown B
It does a little bit. It could be like Camaro.
-
Unknown A
Look at that. That looks like Chevy.
-
Unknown B
I mean, that's a beautiful car though, right?
-
Unknown A
Well, you know, they photograph either of us from a certain name.
-
Unknown B
No, no, I've seen that one in real life. That's a beautiful car. Yeah, that's a beautiful car.
-
Unknown A
That's better.
-
Unknown B
Oh, it sounds amazing.
-
Unknown A
I hate to hit anything with that thing.
-
Unknown B
In what way?
-
Unknown A
I would hate to bump in anything. It looks like I'd have to.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Six weeks.
-
Unknown B
That's true.
-
Unknown A
Can you pick up that picture there? What's the rear look like? It's got a spoiler.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Come on.
-
Unknown B
How do you feel about badass? That thing looks awesome. That looks amazing.
-
Unknown A
Well, I think the original one is like the super coolest guy.
-
Unknown B
Oh, yeah. Oh, no doubt. I mean, if you go back and look at like pull up a boss 429. 1969. Boss 429. This to me is the pinnacle of muscle car Design, is the boss 429.
-
Unknown A
Like that is just pretty good.
-
Unknown B
Spectacular.
-
Unknown A
What you.
-
Unknown B
Look at that.
-
Unknown A
Well, that's pretty cool. Well, that's got that scoop in the front. Yeah, that's pretty close to the Bullet. You're right. The bullet card.
-
Unknown B
68. Yeah, bullet was 68. I actually have a recreation of that.
-
Unknown A
I was watching, you know. Did they found the original Bullet card?
-
Unknown B
Yes, I saw.
-
Unknown A
It was on TV last week and I've watched it a lot of times, that movie because, you know, I think Stephen Queen's pretty. Pretty damn good. But when you watch the movie, it's. It's obviously the roaring through San Francisco and all that sort of stuff it's famous for. And then there's the ending where there's sort of. Story ends with kind of a flaming crash. You know, it's kind of. Not really kind of an ending, in a way, but watching at this particular time, it was all the moments in between, all that that really make the movie.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
All the quiet in between. Where he's in the grocery stores.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, girl.
-
Unknown A
He's the mailbox. He's seeing these people and people. And he has this very quiet inner self that's dealing with people very respectfully. And his blood pressure only moves. The needle only starts to move when he gets with the bad guy, Chalmers, who's obviously, you know, a fraud of some sort. And he's got him, like. He seemed like not just as an actor keeping his cool, but it's like a cop keeping his code with, like, a person he knows is trying to use him. And that. Those. Just watching that part of the performance and that part of the story was much more interesting the first time I saw all that as its own weave through it, you know?
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
The car stuff had very little to do with what I was getting from the people. The car stuff was nothing. And his boss was a great actor. Simon Oakland, I think his name is. He was great as his boss. He said, I'm gonna hold this to Monday morning. You know, that kind of guy. There was some great acting in that. It's a really beautiful American movie like that.
-
Unknown B
I'm so glad you brought that up, because it's. It's one of the things I love about that movie and Le Mans, another great Steve McQueen movie, is that he had these moments. And you could do that in a movie back then where no one was talking for minutes and minutes at a time.
-
Unknown A
There's a lot of quiet music. A lot of quiet.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. It's just. You're taking in the story, but it's very compelling. And sometimes there's not even any music. Right. Like in the mans. The whole first part of it, there's no talking at all for quite a while. It's just like you're getting the sounds and the feeling of being this race car driver and he's driving his 911 down this country road. Yeah. And it's.
-
Unknown A
It's.
-
Unknown B
It engrosses you in a different way. It draw.
-
Unknown A
It pulls you into the story where he's writing. What movie is he driving? Like a dune buggy. Is that Bullet two or is that. No, that's the other one, the one in Boston. That's a pretty good movie, too.
-
Unknown B
Which one's that?
-
Unknown A
Oh, come on. They remade it Thomas Crown Affair. Yeah. And obviously he's having time. You know, we shoot some stuff in a dune buggy in case they had like a whole day.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And he's having a time and meanwhile he's got Faye Dunaway in there going, I hope that's Faye Dunaway. Anyway, roaring around. And he could really drive, right? He gotta drive a car.
-
Unknown B
Really drive. Like you could really flip one of these fucking things if you're driving like.
-
Unknown A
For sure. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
He's going sideways.
-
Unknown A
She is having the time of her life. Look at that. Spinning it out in the water with.
-
Unknown B
A movie star who doesn't even have a seatbelt on. Probably.
-
Unknown A
No, they didn't have seatbelts back then.
-
Unknown B
Jesus Christ.
-
Unknown A
Well, she might have a seatbelt. She looks like. She's probably. That was cool.
-
Unknown B
He was like the archetypal, archetypal movie star. He was a movie star. Like that guy was a movie star. There was something about him that was compelling. He lived his life in a sort of wild, renegade way and drove race cars. And he was a, a man's man. When you saw him in a movie, you believed it.
-
Unknown A
Well, I've been watching, I've come to be watching all the old cowboy shows on, on a, on a satellite. I watch all the old cowboy shows and Wanted Dead Alive was always a super cool show. And I've been watching it just to say, what the hell's he up to, man? He is just. No one was getting away with that. No one was doing what he was doing, which was so small and so slight. He was really preparing himself to be a movie actor, you know, because his, his performance is, is so controlled. He's so in, in his skin, you know, and he's always got like a piece of business to do. He always had a piece of business to do, like something to do. Like the way he like strapped on his goofy sawed off rifle and stuff. It's not even. You keep thinking it's a saw off shotgun, it's a sawed off rifle, you know, so just all his moves were very little.
-
Unknown A
His face gave very, very little away. He would pout, do a half pout kind of stuff. And it's just fun to watch him see how little he could do and get it done, get it across. I like, I like that about him. But he always had like, he kind of challenged himself to do something physical like. So if he'd be talking to me, he'd have just even that, even something like that to be like, you know, come in here, you know, he was Just the way he did it was a guy who had a real natural way with his body. It was fun.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, well, he would just draw you in in all of his films and just. It's like in a way that was. It was just different. It's like it was a different presence on screen.
-
Unknown A
There's that guy sawed off rifle. See, it's a saw off. It's not a shotgun, it's a rifle. When he had. See that little shtick he's got? He's got. So it locks in and then swings back.
-
Unknown B
So he could actually.
-
Unknown A
If he wished to, I hope. He better not wish to against you too. He could just sort of swivel it and fire while it's still attached to his. His waistband.
-
Unknown B
I never saw the show.
-
Unknown A
I didn't even know this show.
-
Unknown B
I didn't know it existed until right now.
-
Unknown A
Kind of a citizen.
-
Unknown B
I am a little younger.
-
Unknown A
That's all it is. That's all it is. Well, you can find this. There's these new cowboy shows. Channels. There's. You can. There's like four channels. I have DirecTV and so you can go and watch that guy. That's a famous guy. That's. Oh, God. Oh, who's that? Oh, oh, that's killing me. I know who this guy is. Well, I don't know who he is, but I recognize. Help me, somebody. Who's that guy?
-
Unknown B
Jamie will find it.
-
Unknown A
Anyway, there's a few channels. There's one called insp. There's also the Cowboy channel. There's also channel 364. 304, 323. Is this 81 DirecTV? Direct TV. And they're all. And you can. And I just go through going like, what do I gotta find? So I can see the rifleman. Also a rifle guy. Yeah, he had a full length rifle. And that was Chuck Connors, who once upon time was a Chicago Cub as a baseball player. Oh, really? And allegedly did some art films. But also he was good too. Chuck Irish was good. The Lone Ranger.
-
Unknown B
Oh, yeah, sure.
-
Unknown A
And that was. Come on, why can I remember his name? But there were some Lone Rangers. The Lone Ranger came on and then the guy. I didn't realize it because there's some Lone Rangers where it's not our Lone Ranger being a Lone Ranger and who wasn't as good as our Lone Ranger. And then our Lone Ranger comes back and it turns out I finally figured out that he. He sort of went on strike. He said he won a contract race after the first season or something. They like said no, they went ahead and made a season with this other guy, and people went, when are you gonna kill off the Lone Ranger? You know, no offense to that man's family. I'm sure it paid for somebody's college, but. Oh, come on. I almost had it.
-
Unknown B
The guy's name.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown B
Jamie will find it.
-
Unknown A
Jamie, you got a lot on your plate.
-
Unknown B
I switched over the Lone Ranger. I was looking at people that were listening. I'll give you this one.
-
Unknown A
There's a few people listed here. I actually saw him someplace he came to, like, one of these names. Mike.
-
Unknown B
Landon. Landon. Definitely not Colburn.
-
Unknown A
No, it's none of those guys. Line. Cheney's misspelled. All right. It's not those guys. Coburn's in there twice.
-
Unknown B
Lone Ranger here.
-
Unknown A
One of these guys, maybe. No. All right, so you started on radio first. That's what you're gonna. You're pulling up radio. That's up. You're going. Clayton Moore. Thank you. I saw Clayton. Where? Came to Jewel Foods are under us. The Lone Ranger was going to appear, but he was not allowed to wear the mask for, like, contracting, whatever the hell. So there he was, and I'm like, mom, that's not the Lone Ranger. You know, whatever the hell. But it was funny to see Clayton Moore without a mask on.
-
Unknown B
Imagine a contract saying you can't do personal.
-
Unknown A
Well, no, it was like he was. The Lone Ranger was copyrighted, you know, Sundays, you know, so he could go and be right on an elephant. I think I may have seen him riding on an elephant in a parade once, but also without the mask on. But I should talk about movies. I'm supposed to be talking about movies. Yes, since we started talking about movies. Tell me about your movie. I got two movies. I have three movies. I work backwards from the one which is least, which is farthest away. I did one with Wes Anderson called the Phoenician something. That's the title, you know. I'm sorry, Wes. The Phoenix. You know what? It is the Phoenician scheme. And I have a lot of trouble with names nowadays, but the guy who did the set design, can you figure that out? This guy is the most famous.
-
Unknown A
He's the best there is. Now, these are the most beautiful sets I've ever seen in any movie. Come on. It's coming. I'm sorry, everybody, but I just haven't been getting enough sleep.
-
Unknown B
No worries.
-
Unknown A
Anyway, that's a great movie, that. We shot that in Berlin and there's great people in it. It's got. I want to Say to Shiro Mafune. But it's not. It's the guy who played Che. Come on, come on, help me out here. All right, you look up Jim. You get back to us with this. Anyway, that movie's coming in a bit. Who, Benito? Yeah, Benito's really good. He's really good. He's really cool. And Michael Serra, right? Is he the third?
-
Unknown B
Did you say Benicio del Toro?
-
Unknown A
Yeah, I said Benito. You said Tomorrow.
-
Unknown B
Fear Loading as well. He was awesome in that.
-
Unknown A
He's great. We get on good. And then the daughter, whose name is of Kate Winslet, who is really wonderful. So the three of them are extraordinary in a movie together. And her name's like Cupid or Eve or something. That's crazy.
-
Unknown B
What's it about?
-
Unknown A
I have no idea. Huh? What's her name? Mia. Thank you. See, I told you. Cupid something. Mia, I have no idea what it's about. You have to pay the money. There she is. Right?
-
Unknown B
Dark tale of espionage followed a strange relationship with a family business.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, William's got a good part, but it's really. Those. Keep going, keep going.
-
Unknown B
Benedict Cumberbatch.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, they're all fine. Michael, Sarah. Michael Sarah is huge. And he's fantastic. Yeah, he's a really good guy. Michael, Sarah, Benicio and Mia are the really good. They're great. Anyway. That's going to be really good. People are. All his movies are like. They are. They're all great. And that one's gonna be very good. Then it's gonna be funny, too. Then I made a movie called the Friend, which stars what's her name? Naomi Watts. And a dog. There's a huge dog. Are you a dog guy?
-
Unknown B
I love dogs.
-
Unknown A
Okay, so there's a massive, really big dog. I mean, it's pretty much as big. There it is. There's Naomi and there's the dog. The dog Is that. Is that big? See how big it is?
-
Unknown B
It's fucking huge.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, that's the words for it.
-
Unknown B
That's a great name.
-
Unknown A
It's an amazing dog. And the script is great. It's written by a book written by a woman named Sigrid Nunez. And can you pop up on the titles there? Maybe the other thing. Yeah, these guys directed it. These guys, Scott McGehee and David Siegel. And they wrote the script from this book. And it's a great script.
-
Unknown B
Nobody can hear you over there. Unfortunately, nobody can hear you over there. We'll have to come back.
-
Unknown A
Scott McGee and David Siegel wrote the script and directed it. And they're great. I love those guys. They made a few good movies. And this one's really good. And this Sigrid Nunez is kind of a big deal author. People know who she is. I read lots of friends.
-
Unknown B
What is the friend? What is about the friend?
-
Unknown A
Well, yeah, there you go. So that's the question. Well, that's sort of the puzzle. A little bit of the puzzle of it. So who is the friend? Is the friend the friend? Or is the friend the dog? You know, the dog represents something, you know, so it's a little deeper than a lot of the ones we get to, but it's. It's really good. It's really good. I like it. It's been to film festivals and people, you know, laughing, crying, the whole thing. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
How do you pick things to do now? Like, you've. You've done so much. You've had this insane career, I'm going.
-
Unknown A
To tell you that. But let me finish the last one, because today is your show, live.
-
Unknown B
No, no, tomorrow.
-
Unknown A
Okay, so this. So that's why I want to ask. Because this movie, the third movie, opens today, which is yesterday, and it's called Riff Raff. And this movie that you have to see, you have to see this. This is really something. This is a movie you should take 10 of your friends to and go see. Riff Raff. It will be, I guarantee you. This one's a party.
-
Unknown B
Tell me what it is.
-
Unknown A
Well, there's a trailer for it up there. See, there's. Okay, it wasn't. There you go.
-
Unknown B
Slap some headphones on.
-
Unknown A
Oh, no. Slim Jim pass you out? You've been passing gas like a very sick infant. I gotta breathe all day. I'm sorry, Lucky. I let. Call me. Okay. Sorry. And then you use my name. Jesus Christ, Lonnie. He just said my. You catch our names by any chance? Yeah. He called you Lefty. And you call him Lonnie. Well, I overreacted. Okay, John, we got to talk about Lefty. What did you do? You killed his son. You're going to kill us.
-
Unknown B
What are you doing?
-
Unknown A
I get horny when I'm scared. I'm married. Who cares? It's just us in the shitty wildlife, you know? This is our son. I worked with young grandparents all because your son couldn't pull out in time. Look at House kids. I would categorize these as a musc. What are we. Billy? Oh, my God. Can I get you anything? I'd sell my left tit for an Advil and a cup of coffee. You said what it was, right? It was just food Incident. Rocco with pubes and my wonton soup. If it's okay, I would just really like to torture him a little bit, but it's okay. Shouldn't have done that, Rocco. Yeah, knock yourself out. Oh, my God. Are we all gonna die? We don't have all night. Wait for me. Before you two start hitting each other, once you start killing, it sort of becomes your de facto solution for every problem.
-
Unknown B
What?
-
Unknown A
Get off of me. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna root. That's a shame you're gonna just put something that hard to waste, huh?
-
Unknown B
That was fun.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's. They gave you too much as far as I'm concerned.
-
Unknown B
But they always do, though, right?
-
Unknown A
I don't know. Sometimes. Not always.
-
Unknown B
Not always. But it's common.
-
Unknown A
It's kind of nicer to see as a surprise, so.
-
Unknown B
Oh, should we not have seen the trailer?
-
Unknown A
It's okay. I don't know what you're gonna do, but some people will think I must see that. But I guarantee you, this movie is really, really funny.
-
Unknown B
I love a movie where I don't get to see the trailer. I really do.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, you could say, oh, yeah, you can not show the trailer. That would be okay. They had. There was one. I saw one that was like, just the first part of that, and then this. They just. I was hoping that was what it was, but. Yeah, because it kind of makes it seem like a little bit, you know, just a little bit too much stuff. And it's a little bit too much stuff, maybe. Yeah, we think about it. But anyway, it's good. Yeah. So Jennifer Coolidge has got some unbelievable things to say in the movie. She's got some amazing things to say. And Ed Harris is really, really good in the movie. Pete Davidson, who I had no idea about. We. We were sidekicks in the movie, and we had a very good time. Did some good stuff. Was Lewis Pullman, who's. Bill Pullman's son, is really good.
-
Unknown A
I mean. And Emanuela, Chicano Italian pistachini. Like that. She's just wonderful and beautiful. And Gabby Union. I call her Gabby Gabrielle Union. And Miles, whose last name I can't remember because I just want to call Miles Davis. But that little kid in there, he has a. He plays the voice of the Electric Junior Bunny show or something like that on. On Nickelodeon or something like that. He does, like, weird cartoon voices.
-
Unknown B
Oh, yeah.
-
Unknown A
So if you watch a lot of Nickelodeon cartoons.
-
Unknown B
I don't anymore. My kids are teenagers now.
-
Unknown A
Oh, really?
-
Unknown B
I used to. I used to. I Used to tell you about.
-
Unknown A
Oh, see, I don't know that one. I guess I. I guess SpongeBob, my brother plays the. The Flying Dutchman. Oh, really? SpongeBob.
-
Unknown B
Oh, wow.
-
Unknown A
So I watched a lot of that, but that's about it. I don't know. I'm way behind.
-
Unknown B
How do you decide what projects to pick?
-
Unknown A
It's really just. What. Well, there are certain people, like, like with people that I've worked with before, there's some, like Wes Anderson is one, and Jim Jarmish and Sophia Coppola are others. And those three people call and say, I got something. I say. I just say, okay, when. You know, that's because I know I. I know that they're. I know they know what I can do, and they know they. They look out for me and they treat people well. I love them as people and I love them as artists. So that's just a thing. But the other ones are more like. Or like, you have to read the script because people, you know, the script is pretty much. If the script's not there, I mean, you know, I can always help improve a script, but if the basic thing isn't there, it's like I was scratching it one the other day, and I'm writing, I'm going, what the hell am I doing this for?
-
Unknown A
This is just terrible. Every. Every page is like, so. But if it's not good. And usually, you know, you know, in like five pages, you know whether or not to even continue reading the script at all, you know? Yeah, so.
-
Unknown B
So a lot of it's based on relationships and people you trust.
-
Unknown A
Only those are very few. There's only very few people that I have those kinds of relationships with. And I've done like multiple jobs with them, and they kill every time. They're good. They're really good. So when they call, it's like, I don't. You don't have to waste my time telling me the story. Just send me the thing, you know? Right. You don't have to waste any time. I'm in. You can count on me. So that's it.
-
Unknown B
I love that.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Yeah, I do too.
-
Unknown B
It's a great feeling when you trust someone that much and you're so enthusiastic about working with them.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. I mean, it's like, great. And you know, like, people make the living, the making of a movie part of their living, you know, Like, Wes is probably the. The most extreme example in that, like, we all live in quasi dormitory. You know, we take over a small hotel in some small. In some city. And all the actors and, like, the key crew live in the hotel. And you come down for breakfast in the morning, and people pad down in their slippers and their jammies, and they have coffee and stuff, and they look at the newspaper and say, what are we doing today? And then they, like, pad back up the stairs and get on their clothes and they go to work. It's cool. It's really nice. It's really just like what you always thought it would be like in the old days. Like, what if we all looked in a dorm?
-
Unknown A
We're just being funny all day like that.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. What was it like working on Kingpin?
-
Unknown A
Well, those guys have more fun making movies than anyone. They really make it fun. Like, I remember, like, in between shots on Kingpin, we'd be on the side of a road somewhere, and it would be like, everybody's gotta pick up a rock. And we got thrown at that telephone pole. You know, who's hit the telephone pole with a rock? So we would sit there and, like, I don't know, A$10 hundred. Whatever it was we're throwing, somebody's gotta hit the rock, you know, and then people like a plot, cash and pay. Because it's just like, we just got to keep this thing going, you know? We're not gonna let the energy of this thing drop.
-
Unknown B
Just fun.
-
Unknown A
Rolling fun. Yeah. And just creativity and always being loose and always being physical. Always being, you know, connected. Attached. You know, not just attached, but connected and. And entertaining. Entertaining each other. You know, really making this fun. God damn it, we are going to have fun. Or else, you know, if you don't have fun making a comedy, you've just made a bad movie that's not funny.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, well, it comes off in the film. The film's so funny. It's so good. It's one of those films. Like, you tried making that today. It would be an uphill trudge.
-
Unknown A
Well, you know, and that's like one of those things. They had a moment on Saturday Night Live, an In Memoriam thing. They said, oh, someone. I was there the week of the thing. I said, yeah, someone's working on the memorial. And I'm thinking, who's gone? Which reminds me, who's gone? You know? And, no, it's not. It's not who's passed away. It's what we can't do anymore to be funny. You know, all these kinds of jokes. And so it's just a whole clip. I didn't even see it, but I just. I saw a little bit of it being assembled but it could be 40 minutes long. You know, just all the sketches that you people would. You get like, you know, Internet responses like, we're gonna burn down the city.
-
Unknown B
New York could be hours long today.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, hours long. I'm short with 45. But it's. But some of the funniest things ever done, you know, like Headwind Harry. Yeah. Which is one that not many people think about. But how, you know, like, somebody would eject a dog eating a brain wound, you know, like, looking at, like, the blood coming out of someone's skeletal one, you know? But someone told me on the way here, a friend of mine, a musician named Mike Zito, who said he listens to your show. He said that you knew Phil Harmon.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
What did you do with Phil Harmon?
-
Unknown B
News Radio. It was a sitcom we did together.
-
Unknown A
Okay. I didn't really watch much of News.
-
Unknown B
Radio, but it was 4 to 99. I played the sor. Like the maintenance guy in this radio station, and Phil was like the lead anchor and. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Did you resent him because you were doing maintenance and he was the lead anchor? No, so. No. Just joking. So. And where was. Was it on cbs?
-
Unknown B
NBC. NBC, yeah.
-
Unknown A
And so he was the news anchor. Well, he's got that crazy voice.
-
Unknown B
Oh, he was great.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, he was.
-
Unknown B
We became really good friends. He was wonderful guy. We actually played one of clips of the day. We had to take it out of the show, but it was a clip from snl. You can never play today about a doctor who decided that every child was female and he had to do operations on all of them. And we're like, holy. Holy shit. And it's like, you know, 90% of his. His births involved in operation to turn into a girl. They're all girls. It was insane. He was great.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, he was really good. He was. I worked with him. I mean, I did Saturday night, I guess, when he was there. But he was in the movie we made called Quick Change, and he was like sterling silver. It was like. Every single take was just, like, perfect.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And it was so much fun. And you just go, phil, that was so great. You're like. He was so kind of modestly proud of, like. Yeah, I. I felt pretty good about it. Yeah, it was really nice. He had real, real modesty.
-
Unknown B
Yes, he did. Well, he was a guy who made it late in his career, you know, late in his life. So he was. Before he was an artist. We have one of his albums out there in the. The other room.
-
Unknown A
He was a musician.
-
Unknown B
No, an artist.
-
Unknown A
Artist. Oh, I'm Sorry.
-
Unknown B
He was a musician as well.
-
Unknown A
I was looking at vinyl today, so that's why I put it in my head.
-
Unknown B
It was a cover of an. That he drew. Oh, yeah. He was an illustrator. He was brilliant. Like, really, really good.
-
Unknown A
I'd love to see that.
-
Unknown B
And he was on Pee Wee's Playhouse. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
May he rest in peace.
-
Unknown B
That guy was great, too.
-
Unknown A
And the lady. I didn't really watch a lot of Pee Wee's Playhouse, but he was a funny guy. That guy and his lady sidekick died this week or something.
-
Unknown B
I don't know.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
All right.
-
Unknown A
Lynn.
-
Unknown B
Mary Stewart.
-
Unknown A
Marie. See, I didn't. Oh, I guess I'd recognize her if her face were a bigger head.
-
Unknown B
So I think Phil, because of the fact that he made it late in life, like, he was just so happy. He had. I mean, I think he was like 37 or something when he got SNL, you know, so it's like that's the point where a lot of people start thinking, hey, this is never gonna happen for me.
-
Unknown A
And then he was, you know, he was a hero. He did. He could do a lot of things. He had a lot of chops. He had a great voice and he could play straight and, you know, playing. Doing comedies, the ability to play straight. He could really do it. He could really do it.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Well, I miss that guy. He was good. He's a good guy.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I missed it terribly. That was. That was a crazy one because I knew. I knew the whole family. I knew the wife, I knew the whole situation. He tried to divorce her a few times, tried to leave a few times. It always went back and.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, and that's also the guy. He would go back and keep trying to make things work. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. I mean, he was very unusual guy and what a professional. Like, dude made me feel like I wasn't doing enough. Like, he'd have, like, all the scripts would have tabs for all the scenes that he was in. They'd have notes underneath each thing and everything would be organized. He had a three ring binder. You'd put the script in.
-
Unknown A
Well, that's going too far.
-
Unknown B
The moment he got the script, put it in the three ring binder. Oh, yeah.
-
Unknown A
I didn't have that much faith in the scripts. I knew they were going to change a lot from Wednesday to Friday. If it was. If it was a big scene, I knew they would rewrite it the next two days. Because it's hard to unlearn.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
So I would not learn.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Because if unlearning is really hard.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Like, if you have a sketch that's this long, all of a sudden, this long, you got problems.
-
Unknown B
Have you ever met Dave Foley?
-
Unknown A
I think so. He's one of the guys from. Yeah, I saw. He. He goes out with my brother Joel and he sings. They do, like, an improv thing called Whose Line Is It Anyway? So I never. I only met him recently. I met him recently. I finally saw my brother's show that he was out with Whose Line Is It Anyway?
-
Unknown B
Right. With great groups and all those guys.
-
Unknown A
And they. And they killed.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
I mean, there's. You know, I knew they're. I knew they were going to kill because I know how good my brother is as an improvise. He can, you know, if you. If you get good at it. And my brother is really good at. Far better than I ever was or could hope to be because he's really kept at it. And so he really goes and goes hard at it. He's really good at. I knew they would kill. I didn't realize how much fun the show would be from an audience perspective. Like, they drag a lot of people up on the stage, and I think, well, that can go any way at all.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And they managed to get. I mean, the show I saw, they had people in the audience that probably should have been hired. They were that phony. But there's something about the uncertainty of bringing up someone from the audience that raises the energy level and the expectation and the possibility.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And the crowd goes crazy for it. And the actors, the performers go crazy, too, because it's like, God damn, they just killed us. They just came up here and murdered us.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And that's where. That's where the real fun is. So they're enjoying themselves.
-
Unknown B
Well, it's a tight show. They've been doing that show for so long. Like, their muscles are, like, very developed. The other comedy improvisation muscles, they're just so sharp. We do a show like that on the road constantly. Like, you develop a sort of feel for how to improvise and how things can go well.
-
Unknown A
You're fearless and, you know, you're certainly anyone that's ever been in that rack and knows you can't be afraid of dying.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
So if you're not afraid of dying, let's go. Here we go. And anything. And there's a handful of you. So it's like the Magnificent Seven. If I don't kill you, he will. So if I don't kill you, he will.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So it's fun to watch. It was really fun to watch. Finally See it live. I'd only seen it on television to see the live show. It was cool. I recommend it too. They're coming to a town near you. If you're.
-
Unknown B
It's a great show if they're coming to you. Dave. Dave Foley, who was on Kids in the hall, was. He was also on news radio.
-
Unknown A
Oh, okay.
-
Unknown B
He played the manager of the station who was in charge of Stephen Root from Office Space and a million other things. Andy Dick, Maura Tierney, Vicki Lewis, Candy Alexander.
-
Unknown A
I don't know a lot of those people.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, yeah. So that was the show.
-
Unknown A
Well, that was. So how it ran. Five years.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, well, around four years. And then Phil got killed and then that's what ended. John Lovitz, who was a good friend of his, took his place. Well, not take it over necessarily. It was a real ensemble. I mean, Dave was really like the main star. Dave all he was. But it was. It just, you know, for whatever reason, the John. I think the John Lovetz ones were really funny. They're really good. But it was just.
-
Unknown A
It's just different funny.
-
Unknown B
It was just the end of the line. The show was over and it got canceled after the fifth year.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. There's something about. It was like, that said, I like the fifth year. It's like, wait a second. High school is only five years. Questions this year.
-
Unknown B
Five years is a long time. It's a long time.
-
Unknown A
I know. It's amazing to think we thought like five years to sit. We're done. Goodbye, everybody. That was 45 years ago. Who the hell thought that would happen?
-
Unknown B
Is it the longest running show ever on television?
-
Unknown A
I think the Today show is the longest run.
-
Unknown B
Oh, it's really, well, interesting.
-
Unknown A
I had to guess.
-
Unknown B
Certainly the longest running show. That's actually entertaining. I mean, SNL's been around for sure.
-
Unknown A
Don't tell Al Roker that.
-
Unknown B
Buddy.
-
Unknown A
Can I take a break?
-
Unknown B
Take a leak.
-
Unknown A
Be right back. You're in charge.
-
Unknown B
Okay, I'll do a little bit. See a bit.
-
Unknown A
You have a very. You have so much cool stuff on the walls. Do you do shows where you walk around, show all this stuff?
-
Unknown B
No, no, really? No, no, no, no. Not just. It's personal for us. For us and the guests.
-
Unknown A
Well, there is a photograph in the. In the men's room. I didn't.
-
Unknown B
Which one?
-
Unknown A
It's Presley and it looks like it's a mug shot.
-
Unknown B
It's a fake mug shot. So what it is. He went to the White House.
-
Unknown A
Okay. The gun thing where he gives. Nixon. Gives him a revolver.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Something automatic. Pistol.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. What do you get?
-
Unknown A
And Nixon gives him a drug badge to be a drug agent. You don't know that part.
-
Unknown B
That's right. I forgot about that.
-
Unknown A
He gave Presley a gun because Presley.
-
Unknown B
Would talk about all these guys are doing drugs. Meanwhile, he was high as well.
-
Unknown A
He was. He was in pain, you know. He was in pain. He had physical pain. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
What was the physical pain? What's wrong with him?
-
Unknown A
I think he did the splits a lot of times, you know, like Chevy's. You know, Chevy hurt himself falling, you know. Oh, yeah, people have pain. I don't know. I don't remember all the facts, but Presley had physical pain and a key. I don't know what his back or something like this sacchariliac or whatever the hell.
-
Unknown B
And he got him hooked.
-
Unknown A
And so he had, like, painkillers. Right.
-
Unknown B
But it's just hilarious that he was a drug guy.
-
Unknown A
It is hilarious. Yeah. It's like good, good fun. It's like a great American story. And like. Yeah, you just see the picture. There's a photograph that exists of Nixon handing him the badge. And, you know, you can laugh looking at it going, right. That's exactly right. Yeah, but, but, but, yeah, there it is. And there's the damn badge. Special assistant. Special assistant. You know what I did see the other night? Did you ever see Frost and Nixon?
-
Unknown B
No.
-
Unknown A
It's a. It's a movie that was made and back in the day, after Watergate. Is his name David Frost? He's a British interviewer cat. And he staged. He had this idea that he was trying to, like, he sort of lost his place in the universe of England anyway, or the world. And he came up with this idea somehow to if he could somehow get an interview with Richard Nixon. And it's a pretty well made movie. It's a very well made movie about it. And they paint Frost pretty much as, like, maybe what he was like money, where they sort of what the perception. My perception is kind of what he was like. Not a perfect person, but certainly not, you know, but certainly got some juice. Certainly has some. Some sort of idea, some. Something going on, I should say. That sounds very small, but he.
-
Unknown A
He was complicated. That's the cheating word. And Nixon, too. And I just want to say that Frank Langella, who I only know from, like, doing. He was kind of like a Broadway guy and he did some horror movies. He's really good as Nixon. Very, very, very, very good as Nixon. And it's just a really well made movie. And I was. I was up in New York And I thought, you know, I'm gonna find Frank Langella and tell him. So there's the guy who. I can't. Don't know what this man's name is, who plays Rust. I can't recall anything, but he's good. And there's Langella playing Nixon. And Langella is really good as Nixon. And Nixon's not easy to do.
-
Unknown B
Does he do the voice well, he does them well.
-
Unknown A
And you know, when you try too.
-
Unknown B
Hard, I mean, here.
-
Unknown A
Your personal lawyer came to Washington. Yeah, there you go.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, it's good.
-
Unknown A
It's good. Yeah, he's really good. So I never got around to finding out who. Where Franklin Joe lived in New York or calling him up. But maybe someone who knows him, listens to your show, will say, hey, Frank, you got a shout out today in Texas. That's great.
-
Unknown B
He's great as Dracula too.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
That whole Nixon Watergate story, I used to think about it very differently until Tucker Carlson broke it down for me. Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent, and the first time he ever gets a job as a journalist, he's covering Watergate, the FBI, all the people that were involved in the break in FBI people like it was. It was a complete intelligence operation. Nixon definitely did the things they accused him of. But the whole thing was sort of coordinated by the intelligence agents to get Nixon out of office. Apparently what the story was according to. I can play the talker thing if you'd like to see it, but apparently.
-
Unknown A
What the story was.
-
Unknown B
Crazy.
-
Unknown A
Well, it sounds.
-
Unknown B
But the story was that Nixon was digging into who killed jfk. One of the, one of the things that they wanted to set up when he was running for president to make sure that Gerald Ford was his vice president. Gerald Ford was also on the Warren Commission that they were. He was digging into it and they wanted to remove him from office. They set this up. They framed him. He did it. They got him out of office. Gerald Ford gets in.
-
Unknown A
Okay, I got a shorter version. Okay. Okay. You're gonna take me down the Kennedy road and I, you know, where are we going there with that one? I got Richard Belzer tapes I can play for you.
-
Unknown B
Oh, I'm a fan of Belzer. I met Belzer Bells and I talked to UFOs.
-
Unknown A
The new guy is gonna, the renew guy is going to bring out all the, all the warrant commission stuff, supposedly release all this stuff.
-
Unknown B
My question is, what the is gonna be in there?
-
Unknown A
Allegedly. I like that.
-
Unknown B
It's not gonna be, hey, this guy did it. Here it is.
-
Unknown A
No, here's the way I see the Bob Woodward story. See, you said. What did you say first about Nixon, about your way of looking at Nixon? The way I look at Nixon. And part of it is seeing this. I like this way that. I love the way Lingell did this. I thought it was really well done. And, and. And he made a character of him, you know, made a person of him. But to me, I feel. Here's what I feel about Nixon is like, you know, he was hard to care for. He ran against jfk, who was everybody's, you know, my hero. And my father actually pushed me into John F. Kennedy in, in 1960. You know, just pushed me into the crowd. He just pushed me up. So I can't up against him, you know, now, now I'd have been wrestled to the ground.
-
Unknown A
But back then you could do. I. You know, I felt like Nixon was, you know, and certainly knowing Hunter and knowing all of the history of Nixon and whatever. Nixon wasn't my guy.
-
Unknown B
Oh, agreed.
-
Unknown A
He was not my guy.
-
Unknown B
No. Not defending Nixon in any way, shape or form. In fact, I talked about Nixon before that. I think he's the problem with the whole psychedelics, drug legalization.
-
Unknown A
So. So. But however, when I read Wired, the book written by what's his name, Woodward, about Belushi, I read like five pages of Wired and I went, oh, my God, they framed Nixon. Like, all of a sudden I went, oh, my God. If this is what he writes about my friend that I've known, you know, for, you know, half my adult life.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Which is completely inaccurate. Talking to, like, the people of the outer, outer circle, getting the story, what the hell could they have done to Nixon? I just felt like if he did this to my friend like this. And I acknowledge I only read five pages, but the five pages I read, you know, made me want to, like, set fire to the whole thing. Those five pages I went, if they, if he did this to Belushi, what he did in Nixon is probably soiled for me, too. I can't. I can't take it. And I know you say, well, you could have two sources and everything like that, but the two sources that he had, if he had them for the Wire book, were so far outside the inner circle that it was. It was criminal, cruel. And the reasoning for it is that the most famous person ever to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is John Belushi.
-
Unknown A
The second most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is Harold Red Grange, the football player. And the third most famous person to come from Wheaton, Illinois, is Bob Woodward.
-
Unknown B
Really? Wow.
-
Unknown A
So there's all my controversy for today. That's all I got. I got a bone about that one. You know, I got a bone for Woodward ever since I read that.
-
Unknown B
But once you see it from something that you know, you know, once you see propaganda or bullshit from someone that you know and you see a distorted perception, it really, it opens your eyes to the fact that a lot of things you read are horseshit.
-
Unknown A
I mean, you like. Belushi made people's careers possible. He made people's careers possible. Mine would be one of them. All the people that he dragged to New York, he went to New York first. He broke into New York, he took over New York and he dragged all of us from the second city, you know, to New York. He's the one that got everyone there and there are musicians and lots of them that will thank Belushi for the creation of, you know, the revivification of the blues and for like the fact that there's like a House of Blues chain that blues players can go and play and there are all these venues that wouldn't have existed without Belushi. Yeah. You know, he did a lot of things for people. He did a lot. There's a lot of people that slept on John Blue she's couch. There's a lot of people that stayed for free at his house until they made it New York.
-
Unknown A
And I'm one and, and any. And then, you know, you know, he died in an unfortunate way. But the man, when he was, he was still the best stage actor I ever saw. He was absolutely magnetic. You couldn't take your eyes off him. And he did a lot of wonderful things for each other. He was a short hitter. Guy could only drink like four beers and he was drunk. So the idea that he died of an overdose is hilarious. Like, that's what my brother said. He said, what do you have four beers? You know, he's. John's dead. What do you have four beers? Because he was not really much of a drinker. But.
-
Unknown B
But it was drugs, right? It was drugs.
-
Unknown A
It was just Meatball.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. What was.
-
Unknown A
And it was just, I believe my knowledge, was like the first meatball he ever had.
-
Unknown B
Jesus Christ. So what was the Woodward interpretation? What was his version?
-
Unknown A
Oh, it was just, he was just, he was talking to people like, wait a minute, you're telling me that that guy over there, that guy who's that far away from the center of things is telling you the facts about John Belushi? That guy way the over there is telling you who John Belushi is. It's like, wait a minute.
-
Unknown B
He didn't contact any of you guys?
-
Unknown A
Well, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. I went, I would have nothing to do with it. I didn't like the, it smelled funny from day one, you know, and, and, you know, Judy wanted people to talk. I was like, sorry, I know where this is going. And it went exactly where I thought it was going. Even worse than where I thought it was going. Even just the title alone, you know, it was just, it was cold.
-
Unknown B
So just exploitation of his death.
-
Unknown A
You know, I, I, you'd have to hold me down and burn my feet to make me read more of it. So I couldn't say that's exploitation of his death. But, you know, guys that write books come up with, you know, Bob Woodwork's got a new title every 45 minutes for another book, you know, so, you know.
-
Unknown B
It'S a very disturbing thing.
-
Unknown A
It's just tough, you know, it's like, so what do you, you know, that's like he really, in those five pages I read, he tore down my friend, you know, I didn't see any. There was no compensation. There was no balance in the five I read. And maybe, maybe I was unlucky, but if that much was, to me, was disturbingly ugly and, like, irresponsible to report. And then I, I can't imagine that I got so. That only felt bad.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. You know, I'm sure he's done.
-
Unknown A
Wilbert does other things. I've seen him on tv and he can be smart and everything, but, you know, he's gonna have to answer for that sometime for something, you know, I think.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
You know, it's just like, you don't get a free ride for. Not with my friend.
-
Unknown B
No. We can get away with things a lot more back then. We wrote that book as well, you know, so there's no other venues for people to express themselves. Back then, it was like, he writes the book, he does the interviews for the book. This is the narrative.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. And Bob Woodward, like one of the squarest guys in the world, gets to tell the story of what it was like to live in New York city in the 70s.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Really, in the late 70s and 80s. Like, like he knows the story was. Come on.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. That must have been a magical time.
-
Unknown A
It was cool. It was really fun. You know, it was a smaller city, in a funny way. There was a lot more freedom. And it was. When I got there, you know, this town was broke, you know, you know, had the town was falling apart. And, you know, the subways were rough. And, you know, people, you know, to me, it was exciting. I didn't. What the hell. I know I came from Illinois, from Chicago, from the suburbs of the city and Chicago. Chicago was pretty. It was a city. And in some, it had its own hazards. You know, there were some more hazards. Where I lived in Chicago was more dangerous than where I lived in. In New York ever. But. But the city was, you know, the economic part of it and the infrastructure was, you know, like the subways were. You know, people complain about the subways now.
-
Unknown A
I was like, wait a second. These subways are air conditioned. And the windows closed. Those windows. Those windows were open summer and winter, and you either froze or you had, like, metal shavings, dust flying through in the summer with no heat, with no air conditioning. And, you know, if it's 97 degrees out, it's even hotter inside the crowded subway car, you know, so that was.
-
Unknown B
Also back when Times Square was Times.
-
Unknown A
Square and it was cool. Yeah, Times Square was. It's just as weird now, but it's just a different weird thing. They sort of tried to sanitize it, you know, and it's. It's kind of stupid. I mean, now there's a lot more lights and everything. There's more signs. But the signs were always cool when they were neon. They were cool. Yeah. Now they're just these glow lights and they just keep moving and dancing and, you know, it's. You know, people with, like, vision problems shouldn't be out. And people, you know, who are the people that are supposed to watch out for strobe lights? The epileptics can't walk through Times Square and 42nd street is. It's blah. It's like, dull, you know, but then.
-
Unknown B
It was like, wow, it's a giant Applebee's. It's a giant Applebee's with huge ads, giant LCD ads.
-
Unknown A
But it was. It was cool back then. You could see stuff. There was real stuff to see. Not that there's. It's still real, but it's just a different real. There's a lot more. It's a whole international world now, which it wasn't back then. Back then, it was just like the street survivors of the city at the very, you know, the physical center of it. And you saw some amazing things. And it was alive, certainly alive. Now. There's, you know, you're crashing into not exactly debutante or not exactly like, bridesmaid parties, but like, you know, there's people with flags and.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, well, there's always a lot.
-
Unknown A
There's a lot to see. There's still a lot to see. It's still. It's still a New York City, New York.
-
Unknown B
But back then, having experience being in that wild New York of the 1970s and then getting on SNL. How old were you?
-
Unknown A
26.
-
Unknown B
Wow. That had been a bizarre experience.
-
Unknown A
Yes, it was. It was a great experience, for sure. And, you know, you saw, you know, you know, your life just changed dramatically from being, you know, unable to. Barely able to pay rent or afford, you know, a car, a telephone, anything like that, you know, to having a credit card. Like that was a big thing, you know, credit card and a credit card. And, you know, we had to. Because they wanted. I wanted safe. We had this sort of a cab account with a thing called Skulls Angels. There was a sort of company within the Yellow Cab Company called Skulls Angels. And you could call them, and they would pick you up anywhere in the city and take you wherever it was. Just. You just signed your name. You didn't have to have any money. And I had a credit card and that account, and that's all.
-
Unknown A
And I just went live for a couple years like that. And just basically all you were doing was going to work and going to sleep and going. And then in between you, when you have 12 or 15 hours, you didn't have to do anything. You're like, okay, let's go. You know, like. Like anything could happen. Anything could happen. And you could go anywhere in the city and you sort of had a sort of a thumbprint of, okay, you could go into any place and people be like, come on in, you know, and you got to, you know, really, you know, I mean, I probably could have done, you know, gotten more out of it, but I certainly got a lot. I put a lot into it, you know, I got a lot. An amazing kind of education, you know, I got amazing education. But I guess that gets back to the sort of, you know, I got to put my education to use, is what I should say.
-
Unknown A
I mean, in this. In this kind of new, challenging environment, I got to put what my education had to that point had been to use.
-
Unknown B
What was the adjustment like going from being broke to all of a sudden having money, being famous, living in New York City, trying to make sense of this new reality that you live in?
-
Unknown A
Well, I'll try to do an order. Well, going. Being broke was. Oh, I should tell you, I'm here in Austin, Texas. This is. This is a William Ray golf shirt I brought you I brought you. Somehow I got involved with these clothes. The clothes got involved with me. And that. That's me. That is I. And that person right there. I brought you a pair of shorts.
-
Unknown B
Oh, thank you.
-
Unknown A
I also brought licorice, which you don't want.
-
Unknown B
Licorice.
-
Unknown A
Anyway, so, anyway, the shorts are very. You're not too chubby, but the shorts are. Are very forgiving. Actually, these golf shorts, I've been traveling well, they're. Yeah, they're kind of cool. So are you Greg? Are you a gray?
-
Unknown B
Yeah, sure.
-
Unknown A
That's what I thought. I thought you'd be a great guy. Those are for you.
-
Unknown B
Thank you very much.
-
Unknown A
I've got my name on, so if they get lost, they'll be returned to me.
-
Unknown B
Nice. Nice. Thank you very much. Okay, I'm excited.
-
Unknown A
And wait, I got your shirt. I thought you might like this shirt because this kind of has the range of possibility on it.
-
Unknown B
Oh, yeah.
-
Unknown A
It has a lot of. That kind of has a sort of a studious look for you.
-
Unknown B
There's a lot going on that.
-
Unknown A
There's a lot going on. Thank you. There you go.
-
Unknown B
Thank you very much.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, you're welcome. I had. I have long pants, too, but I think you wore a short skirt.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I'm good. Thank you, though. Jamie's a giant golfer.
-
Unknown A
Oh, yeah. Are you a long. How. You're tall. How tall are you? Six? One. Well, it's not that tall. Let's see. So you can. So you. So we're the same sort of. And so you like white or make blue or black? Those are shorts. Hold on. Are you a shorts guy or long pants guy?
-
Unknown B
Like it all in Texas.
-
Unknown A
You love it all, huh? It's hot out here.
-
Unknown B
Play golf in Texas.
-
Unknown A
It's hot.
-
Unknown B
Texas gets hot. And playing golf usually, I bet.
-
Unknown A
Well, you can play all year here. How chubby are you?
-
Unknown B
I'm not. I don't think it is.
-
Unknown A
Okay, well, the pants are pretty good. Well, here's the. You want the shorts?
-
Unknown B
Yeah, give me the shorts.
-
Unknown A
These are black.
-
Unknown B
Nice.
-
Unknown A
And that's the Murray tartan right there. That's the family tartan there. There you go.
-
Unknown B
Is that like from your family seal?
-
Unknown A
Huh?
-
Unknown B
The tartan is a special to your family?
-
Unknown A
Yeah, it's a Marie tartan.
-
Unknown B
Really?
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
Nice.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Okay. And then so here and then. So you want a shirt?
-
Unknown B
Sure.
-
Unknown A
Let's see. I'm actually show off this shirt. This is a shirt because my sort of brother has something with this one. This has got like all this stuff from Chicago on it.
-
Unknown B
Oh, nice.
-
Unknown A
It's got. I haven't looked at this yet.
-
Unknown B
Guitars. It's like a pizza place.
-
Unknown A
I don't know why there's tambourines and stuff on. I have no idea. But there's always a glass of beer for some reason.
-
Unknown B
There's a drum.
-
Unknown A
But there's a bunch of references to people we know and things we did in Chicago. And I see there's, like, the names of some character, a movie I played. And then there's sluice place. That's my friend Jess. Lumen is a golfer. I think you're gonna like this shirt here. Jamie, how's that for you?
-
Unknown B
Oh, that's perfect. That's Jamie.
-
Unknown A
Okay. What color pants did I throw at you?
-
Unknown B
I got some black shorts over here.
-
Unknown A
Perfect.
-
Unknown B
Black shorts, dark blue shirt. You're in.
-
Unknown A
You can pull that off. Way to go high for that one.
-
Unknown B
When you stop Tony Hinchcliffe in this inevitable match.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, let's go.
-
Unknown B
You'll wear that. Be perfect.
-
Unknown A
There's that.
-
Unknown B
How long you been golfing for?
-
Unknown A
Well, the question is, how long was I have I been caddy for? So I started caddying when I was very young. Our eldest brother Edward started catting.
-
Unknown B
So Caddyshack must have been a lot of fun for you then.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, well, Caddyshack came. You know, my brother Brian was the. Wrote the. Brian wrote it with Doug Kenny, one of the really great funny guys from National Boon, and Harold Ramos, who directed the movie. But all the golf stuff is all Brian's, you know, memories of caddy. And the whole golf story comes from Brian, sort of. I mean, they all write jokes, but Doug was in charge of all the fancy lad stuff. His dad was some sort of tennis pro, sometime brother in Ohio. And Harold wrote the jokes that were left and shaped it, then directed it.
-
Unknown B
So you started off catting.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, I started a shag boy, which doesn't even exist anymore. There's a thing called a jamboy, which I don't know if it really exists. My friend Duff insists that back in the day there was a thing called a jam boy who walked around. I think it was a slave or something like it, who walked around covered with jam to draw the insects away from the golfers. Now, I don't know if that's true or not. We should ask your listeners, but I didn't have that bad, of course. But a shag boy was. Golfers had what they call a shag bag, which was like a small bag of golf balls, like 100 golf balls or something like that. And they would dump them out on the practice tee, and you would run out there with a bag, and they would. You'd be the target. Okay, go on about 70 yards, 60 yards, you know, and then they start hitting.
-
Unknown A
See? No, but see, that would be safer than what I was wearing. We didn't have that. But I was just out there. See? Can you. Yeah, but I was definitely out there. And they would aim at you. And the thing was, it would last for an hour or so. And, you know, you're only. I was 10 when I started doing this. So you. So your mind would wander, and occasionally you'd hear like, a ball lands next to you or really close. I never got conked exactly on the head, but I definitely got hit on one bounce on any number of times, but you were just a target. Then he'd wave in the next club, and you go, 700. And so you have to back up a little farther and then farther. And the bigger the club, the wider the dispersion of the. Of the ball.
-
Unknown A
So you had to run back. You really had to run to catch up to where this bad golfer was hitting your golf balls. So that's. That's when I was 10. And then like a year or so later, I became like a caddy. And then I caddied all the way through high school. Payment with your high school.
-
Unknown B
When you start playing.
-
Unknown A
Well, if you. If you showed up to caddy on Sunday, you were allowed to play golf on Monday morning. So probably I didn't really play golf. Golf like that until really 12, maybe. Maybe a little sooner. But we used to play golf across the street from our house. There were. There was, like, a line of telephone poles planted in grass, you know, and we would play from foam pole to foam pole, and that was. That was the pin. So. But. So that's it. And then I didn't really play. I mean, once I sort of, you know, minister high school, I didn't play for a long time until I made some money. And then all of a sudden, you can play golf again. Because golf, if you're not kidding, it takes money to play. You at least play and be organized and have a set of clubs and stuff.
-
Unknown A
So I. I picked it up then, and. And now I like it. You know, I was gonna give it up a few years ago, but then, you know, all of a sudden, my son started playing golf. He's like, well, that's what you got to do, you know? So now I'm having more fun playing, and I've gotten smarter. Do you ever play Golf?
-
Unknown B
No.
-
Unknown A
Never?
-
Unknown B
No, never? No. I'm scared of it because I think it'll eat up all my time because I get addicted to games. Oh, yeah. I play pool a lot.
-
Unknown A
Do you have a pool table here?
-
Unknown B
I got a couple pool tables here. I got one at home. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And what games you play? You play, like, straightball?
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
You know, I should work on nine ball. I have a pool table. Yeah. You know, I mostly play with.
-
Unknown B
The thing about it is I know everybody who plays golf gets fully addicted to it, loves it to death, and I just don't have the time to get fully addicted to another thing. And, you know, just being friends with Jamie and seeing Jamie's addiction, see what happened over the last few years, he's become a maniac. He's got a golfing simulator in the back and really drives balls and.
-
Unknown A
Oh, yeah, a Trackman. It's in here.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Wow. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
He's set up in the garage. And whenever I come. Do you live here?
-
Unknown A
Live in this building?
-
Unknown B
No, it's a big building, but we don't live here. We could. We definitely could. Maybe that's the next one. Maybe the next one will set up dorms.
-
Unknown A
Maybe. Yeah. There's always a rooftop. Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess. Well, I don't want you to get addicted.
-
Unknown B
Well, I just. I've heard you're a very good golfer. That's what I'm asking.
-
Unknown A
Well, just keep that light going. But it's. But I can play. Okay. You know, I get a lot of golf shots.
-
Unknown B
What's, like, your handicap? Jamie won. What that means.
-
Unknown A
No, it's not about 12. The lowest I ever was was about 7. Yeah. Means I can play a little bit. And now it's actually. It's. What's the word? Diminishing. It's going lower because I figured something out. There's a. I went to. There's a great book. These ladies, P.N. nielsen and Lynn Pierre. Nielsen's an easy one to remember, but Lynn's. Whatever. Lynn's. I said they wrote a great book called Every Shot Must have a Purpose. You read that one? Well, I should talk about them because they're. They're. They really are onto something. And it's about quieting your brain when you play, which I always thought I'd get better when my. As my brain softened, it seemed to be happening. My brain was softening. I was maybe getting better, but not fast enough for me. And then I got. I started following what these lanes had to write.
-
Unknown A
There were Annika's teachers at one time And Monica Sorenstam. She's a famous golfer.
-
Unknown B
Okay.
-
Unknown A
Swedish.
-
Unknown B
Every shot must have.
-
Unknown A
And there's the forward. But Annika. Anyway. Lynn Marriott. How can see I'm blocking that because it's a hotel name. And I. And I didn't used to be a member of Marriott Club, but okay, so that's a great book and they've written a bunch of stuff that they. They know some stuff. So. What is that one, Jamie?
-
Unknown B
What does it change?
-
Unknown A
It makes. It made me enjoy. I enjoy golf. I've always had a lot of fun, but that made me enjoy golf even more.
-
Unknown B
How so? Like, was it.
-
Unknown A
You know, it's just. It's decluttering. You know, it's like when you do it in your life and you, you know, you talk about, you know, you mentioned distractions at the very beginning. You know, think about all the things that can catch you, you know, to distract you. And if you're trying to do something that's pretty straightforward, whether it's stir grits or sew a line of something or. Or play a game of golf, which ideally you only have to swing, hit the ball like 75 times. If you're, you know, if you. Everything that distracts you from that is a. Is. Is a problem. So it's the ability to like, sort of just pull weeds out of your head, as I read a Japanese man say once and, and. And attend to it. When you attend to it, it's, you know, it's a few hours to play around a golf.
-
Unknown A
Like you say, it takes a lot of time, but the actual playing of the game is only minutes. The actual hitting of the ball is only minutes. Like an NFL game could take like three hours on TV, but it's like 20 minutes of action. Right? Right. So it's similar to that in golf, that or anything that you have to sort of return to yourself to hit the ball. You got to come back, get it back together to hit the ball or do anything. And so you set your. You have the freedom in between the shots to move and speak and tell jokes and smoke cigars and whatever you want to do. But when you want to hit the ball, this is about. You got. You're going to think, you make a little plan and you separate that. You sort of inculcate that. You take it in and then you separate that and you step up and you hit the.
-
Unknown A
Hit the thing. And hitting the thing is only hitting the thing and that. If you can do that, then you start having real success with the actual hitting and the sort of Joy of the sort of mind body connection and all this sort of aesthetic, all the kind of like, you know, almost spiritual things about a mind, body exercise, a game comes to you, you know, like, you know, me, a great athlete, say, they're in a zone. They're not in a zone. They're really conscious, they're really connected. They're really aware. It is a. It's more than a zone. It's. It's like the ideal place to be.
-
Unknown B
Right, right. And what is it about their writing that helped you, like, what is their philosophy that helped, like, steer you more towards being able to do that?
-
Unknown A
Well, for an example, it's like something that can keep you in your body because you have to stay in your body. I believe that anyway. I already believe that. So you've got this dreg layer, right? So imagine it's a golf ball. One thing that they sort of say was, like, you would. You would just. In between shots, you would just take your golf ball. If you're on a putty green or if you have a spare in your pocket and you just toss it up and catch it, toss it up and catch it. That keeps. Keeps you, like, physically aware of. I've got to do this and this and that. I've got to do these two things. So I've got to have my attention in my body. I've got to stay home, you know. So if you can stay in your body, it all begins in the body.
-
Unknown A
Everything we are, everything we hope to be, everything we dream about, it's all within the skin. So you got to stay within the skin. So if you can make yourself come back, if you can get yourself back inside, you don't have so far to go to achieve your intended goal. Right. You don't have to. You don't have to, like, drag yourself back from outer space. You're not dreaming over there. I'm in my body already, so I'm close, you know? Does that make sense?
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
So. And, you know, I've had some discussions with Pia, and she says, well, that's what the great golfers are doing. They are pulling themselves back into this thing. That's why they hit so many good shots, is because they. They're home, you know? They're home, you know, so that's. That's sort of what I got out of her. And I. I sort of learned and believe that from other venues, but I never had it put in with practical applications. Like. Like, she gives. They give for golf. You know, you think of golf is like, oh, I can Be willy nilly out here. And I can be fun or I can be aggressive or I can be competitive or whatever. Hell, all that stuff is real. That's emotion kind of thing. But if you're not in the body, good luck, right? And it's only luck.
-
Unknown B
Well, there's. There's a great joy in things that take you away from the rest of the world because they require so much of your attention. That's what I get out of pool and that's what I get out of archery, too. I practice archery. But there's things that require so much focus while you're doing them, and you have to be in your body. You have to. You have to be synchronized.
-
Unknown A
I would imagine archery would be one of the more challenging ones.
-
Unknown B
Very challenging. It's very challenging because it's. You have. You're supposed to have as little movement as possible upon the execution of the shot. So there's all these strategies.
-
Unknown A
They started televising it lately.
-
Unknown B
It's really cool to watch.
-
Unknown A
It's very cool to watch. And they've got them. Cameras are right on their face and just look just like this and you're like, God dang, that's beautiful. That's as good close up as any Robin Hood movie ever had. It's just great.
-
Unknown B
No, I love watching it. I watch on YouTube all the time. There's these Las Vegas shootouts where they have three targets and they have 30 different shots. So they have. They're trying to get an X 30 different times, and they're standing next to the best archers in the world. Everyone's at probably like 20 meters, and they're all just focusing, like dead still, completely calm focusing. Oh, you can find it. Like, go to Lancaster Archery Vegas, and they have what they call a Vegas face. So a Vegas face is three? Oh, yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown A
Screenshots. Because you can't see the faces from a distance, right? No, you don't want to get between the Earls.
-
Unknown B
No, you definitely don't. People bring binoculars?
-
Unknown A
Oh, yeah.
-
Unknown B
All the archers have binoculars. And they'll pull them up after each shot because they're looking for precise distances. And then they'll make slight adjustments on their scope and their sight and move. And then they'll take a breath. But it's just.
-
Unknown A
Do you have one of those Mass Evo?
-
Unknown B
Yes, this is exactly.
-
Unknown A
Those things don't even look fair.
-
Unknown B
So these guys are all on this line and they're all firing and the amount of pressure is insane because really, the guy makes money out of this thing. The guy wins. First place. Everything else is not so good. There's not a lot of money in archery. Look at the audience.
-
Unknown A
Like about 60 guys.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, not a lot of audience. Right.
-
Unknown A
It's not a crowd, please.
-
Unknown B
So this is just for real. Complete archery fanatics who are absolutely lost in this connection between your mind, your body and the flight of the arrow. The mystical flight of the arrow.
-
Unknown A
Can you go back and freeze that there? Can you lose the line on the bottom? So that's just interesting to me to look at. Yeah, like their weight balance. Just to look at, like who's on his sort of half his front foot. So it's interesting. They have a little bit more weight on their back foot. Is that right?
-
Unknown B
Well, we're catching this in, in mid draw, so he might settle.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
See that guy that you were looking at who was like that, that's got brazier on his back. Watch, he'll settle. So he'll draw. And as he draws, he arches back. And now watch. He'll settle forward. So he settle. It was settling as the angle change of the camera shot, but they want to ideally be about 50, 50. And you're just staying calm, keeping it as steady as possible.
-
Unknown A
And the wheels you're shooting too?
-
Unknown B
Yes, yes. There's a guy that shoots with just his feet, the guy who doesn't have arms. And he's unbelievably accurate. Yeah, he shoots with his toes. So what these guys are doing is it's just a perfect balance of technique and focus and attention. And they're actually trying to get what's called a surprise shot. They're not executing the shot like you would like a rifle trigger. Most of these guys use what's called a hinge. And so that's what they're going for. They're looking for. So with a hinge, you don't. You don't make the hinge, you don't make the release go off. Like with a button, where you press a button, it's just a rotation of the handle and you don't know when it's going to go off. So you draw it back.
-
Unknown A
You're not letting go with your fingers.
-
Unknown B
No, no. You have a metal release in your hand that has a hook. And the hook is attached to rotating, rotating it. It breaks. And so the hook breaks. And so see, or some of them use a thumb. Like that guy with the yellow and black. That guy. So he's got a thumb trigger. So what he's doing is he's setting the trigger, the barrel of the trigger right where his thumb is. And he's just using the pulling of his arm to make it go off. He's not executing it with his thumb. Now there's a small.
-
Unknown A
So that's why they all look different when they're on the release.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, but they all. Their arms all fly backwards. If you watch the other arm moves backwards. That's indicative of a surprise shot. That means they're executing it perfectly. So as they're pulling back, they don't.
-
Unknown A
Know when it's going to go.
-
Unknown B
Exactly. They're just executing the technique, which is the pull with the back muscles. You're pulling with your rhomboids. And then it's slowly goes off.
-
Unknown A
Guy right there.
-
Unknown B
See, like that guy with that, the black hat. Watch. See his fingers, how it's curling? See how it goes off? So that's just from his hand curling. That's making the shot go off.
-
Unknown A
But they get it to the position or the area where it's going to go.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
And they've got to be right.
-
Unknown B
They've got to be. Yes.
-
Unknown A
Poised forward.
-
Unknown B
But the idea is, if you think about it going off and you make it go off, there's some sort of a recoil. So there's some sort of an anticipation of that recoil. And when you're shooting that precisely, that anticipation of that recoil might make a difference of an inch or two. Left or right. Yes, that tension.
-
Unknown A
So you. You try to not anticipate.
-
Unknown B
When you are doing that, you do not think about anything else. It clears your mind. When you are just concentrating on that target, you cannot think about your bill.
-
Unknown A
So you do it. Yes. And when you. When a thought does come in your head, you don't hit the target.
-
Unknown B
Yes. But it doesn't come in your head. It can't. It's too hard. The process of aiming is so engrossing. When you lock in place and you're aiming and then you're pulling back with the shot like you're all in, you're all there. Especially if you're good. If you're good, that is the only thing you're thinking of. And there's a moving, meditation aspect to it, a cleansing of your mind. Your worries go away, your thoughts, the things that are bugging you. And I got to do this and I got to call that guy back and all it goes away because it's so engrossing, it requires so much.
-
Unknown A
So how do you affect that yourself? How do you. How do you move that away from the incidental thoughts that pop in?
-
Unknown B
Well, it's just the Difficulty of it. Yeah, the difficulty of it actually sort of facilitates your meditative mindset. Because if you're going to do it right, there's no other way to do it. You literally can't be thinking about other things while you're doing it.
-
Unknown A
Well, it's not, like, off, like, if you're thinking about what you're going to pick up on the way home.
-
Unknown B
Exactly. Same as pool, when, you know, I play pool at a pretty high level. Like, I bet that book would be very beneficial to me. I bet there's some techniques and strategies of how to focus yourself and completely remove yourself from the rest of the world. And just think about this mind body connection and this, the execution of this thing you're trying to do.
-
Unknown A
All right, I'm gonna try to do that. I know, I, I, I, you know, I don't play enough pool and. But I did. I had to. I had to shoot some pools in Groundhog Day. So I got with it. Like, a guy's a pool expert and he just gave me drills to do.
-
Unknown B
Do you remember his name?
-
Unknown A
No, but if he remembers, he should say hi. Anyway, he got me a bunch of things, and I was very. I'm still very disappointed because when we actually shot the scene, I think I made. I think I sank. I think I shot. I think, I think like nine balls and seven balls, eight balls in three shots. And I went. We got that. And the senator was like, well, let's set up. I'll set up the. I said, what are you talking about? He had half of the table.
-
Unknown B
Oh, no. Okay. You want to wrap it up? We can wrap it up.
-
Unknown A
No, it's okay.
-
Unknown B
Okay. All right. Take a look and come back. All right.
-
Unknown A
I keep asking, any suggestions? They say, well, tell some stories.
-
Unknown B
You should never ask.
-
Unknown A
So where do you come from?
-
Unknown B
I was born in New Jersey. Went to high school in Boston. Lived all over the country. Lived in San Francisco for a while when I was a kid. Florida.
-
Unknown A
Were you in military or something?
-
Unknown B
No, mother. Got divorced, married my stepfather. He was going to school, went to San Francisco for that, then Florida and then eventually Boston.
-
Unknown A
Well, that's pretty good. I mean, I think I always want to live in San Francisco.
-
Unknown B
Well, I was in San Francisco during the Vietnam War, and they hide the hippie days when I was a little kid. It's pretty wild. It was a very interesting time to be there, you know? It was a crazy place.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Well, that's what I think.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. My brother was there, too. He went to school out there at St. Mary's in Morocco. And so. But it turned out he was spending a lot of time in Berkeley. Yeah, he wasn't doing that much study, but he. But what a wife he had out there. What a fantastic time to have been there. And my other friend went to high school at that time, somewhere around there. And I envied that. And I really like San Francisco. And I was there recently. I saw Dr. Not Dr. Father Guido Sarducci.
-
Unknown B
Oh, wow.
-
Unknown A
And had dinner with him and Roman Coppola. And we went to an old place called, like, Macaroni or something, like that old Italian place. And it was really delightful. I just love San Francisco. And I have friends who like. And we started talking about politics a long time ago, like for political reasons. Oh, San Francisco. Everyone in San Francisco. And so I was there and I know there's homeless people in San Francisco now, lots of them. And there's homeless people in Los Angeles and Santa Monica. Anywhere that is warm. Yeah, especially. And California's the most popular state. But I don't think it's a. I don't think it's a political choice. I mean, I think. Isn't it. I don't know, Stats, but these people don't. It's more of a mental health thing. So it's not anybody's politics. They're making people crazy. Well, it's not making people live on the street, but I know I just.
-
Unknown A
I'm sticking out for San Francisco, saying it's still. I mean, San Francisco survived the beatniks, it survived the hippies, it survived the earthquake, it survived aids. It survived everything. It's like a resilient, extraordinary place.
-
Unknown B
You know, it's still got a lot of extraordinary aspects to it. The problem is they kind of encourage people to sleep on the streets and any way they want, and they didn't do anything about it. And it just really think.
-
Unknown A
They encourage people.
-
Unknown B
They make it financially viable for them to do it. The money to do it. They. They. They're paying them the.
-
Unknown A
On the street.
-
Unknown B
No, they're paying them so that they don't have to be poor or homeless. I mean, they have a tent and they. They'll help them subsidize this. This existence. Drug addiction in mental health.
-
Unknown A
That's.
-
Unknown B
That's the real problem.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
And when you don't address it and then you just allow people to camp any way you want, you're almost sort of encouraging mental health problems to be everywhere, all throughout and just be throughout the entire city. It's just a lack of empathy for the people. If you're empathetic for them, you don't let them just camp out and on the street. What you do is you try to say, hey, obviously a real problem. This needs to be addressed for the greater good of the city and for these people. They need mental health care. They need addiction care. They need. It's a real problem that needs to be addressed. You can't just leave them out in the street and let them do whatever they want to become a hazard for everybody else. Then it makes the city kind of up.
-
Unknown A
I don't know what the. I mean, you know, when you talk, when you speak it, it sounds like more of a political choice. No, someone's saying, well, it sounds like you're saying they're being, you know, paid to on the streets. And people like real illness happened first before living on the street.
-
Unknown B
Unquestionably. It's all during the Reagan administration when they opened up the mental health institutes and just let people out in the streets.
-
Unknown A
Well, it started before that in New York. And that was my experience in New York was like Rockefeller way back when. And I could be wrong, but this is how it's attributed. Sort of opened up the mental. Closed up mental health hospitals and pushed these many, many, many people out on the streets.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
That had nowhere to. Nowhere to go. And it wasn't like. It wasn't a poverty situation, although it looks like it when you look at it. It's really a mental health situation. And a great number of these people have no interest in going into a place. Right. They were just. As we live on the street, their life is like an interior monologue that they can't control. And. And living in a home is no different than living on the street. The thing is still going on. The conversation is still going on inside the brain, but there has to be.
-
Unknown B
A solution for it.
-
Unknown A
Well, okay, so I don't disagree that there has to be a solution, but I don't. I don't think that people are. This is sort of like, you know, I'd like to think like, let's not talk politics.
-
Unknown B
Let's.
-
Unknown A
What we can agree on. So that solution is like, this is where the great minds of California or the United States need to come together and say, okay, these are. Why don't we solve these problems that are common to every. Every state has a city that has X number of people living on the street. Whether it's Yankton, you know, whether it's, you know, Minneapolis, whether it's, you know, Louisville, whatever. Everyone's got, like a street scene. Situation that's rough like that. And it's, it's hard to say. Let's, you know, you say there's got to be a solution. Where's it, where's that going to come from? And who's going to believe it from if it comes from this direction or that direction or this side or that side. How do you, how do you like, evaporate the walls of separation and say, like, how do we get, how do we get the right people with the right minds to solve these questions?
-
Unknown A
You know, these are, these are real things and people argue about them when, I mean, you and I are, you know, an argument we're talking about.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And neither one of us are sleeping on the street.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
We both feel compassion for it, you know, empathy for it. But, but how do you get people that are far removed, and we can say we're far removed from it to like allow the solution to take place.
-
Unknown B
From one side or the other?
-
Unknown A
One side, any side, who gives a damn? Who's got. Right.
-
Unknown B
Well, it has to be a completely bipartisan thing. We have to look at it in terms of the health of human beings in our community. Right. This country is supposed to be our community. These people that are on the street, they are sad, sick people in our community. And some real effort has to be taken to try to change that instead of just enable them to keep doing it. That's all I'm saying. I just don't think that the solution is let them camp wherever they want.
-
Unknown A
So you were in this situation, you had this people caught up. A platform or a place where you invite people to come here that are, that can speak to lots of people. How many people watch your show? A lot. So there's lots of people watching your show. And when there's people that make sense, you hear it, it rings a bell. You know, it sounds, it sounds like that. I wish I knew the answer to, to, to solving these things. Occasionally, like I said, you see people with these problem solvers and the problem solvers come. But you know, people want to choose their own problem solver. You know, it's money and being a.
-
Unknown B
Problem solver that's the problem. One of the parts of the big parts of the problem in California in particular is that there's an enormous budget to deal with the homeless. So you have these people that work in these departments that are making quarter million dollars a year that are just working on the homeless problem, which keeps getting worse every year. There's no incentive to fix anything or change anything. And it's a bunch of bureaucracy. There's a lot of bullshit that gets involved in the business. A buddy of mine is a lawyer who went to San Francisco and he was disturbed by it all. He's like, this is so crazy. Like, what is missing? Do we need more funding? And they're like, no. This guy explained to him, no. They literally have an incentive to keep the homeless problem. There's an enormous number of people that are making a fantastic living and dealing with homeless.
-
Unknown A
Who's making money on the homeless?
-
Unknown B
There's a giant list of people. We could pull it up if you want to say, well, we don't need to call them out, but there's a bunch of.
-
Unknown A
Who makes money on the homeless?
-
Unknown B
The people that are involved in these organizations that are dealing with the homeless, whether it's in Los Angeles or in San Franc.
-
Unknown A
You mean, are they like government?
-
Unknown B
Yes, they're all government. Yes. It's all funded by the state, and there's real jobs, like real money. And nothing gets done. Nothing changes. In fact, it gets worse every year. Something needs to be done that shows results. Like, what is that? I think it's got to be compassionate. It's got to be something that both the left and the right to.
-
Unknown A
So here's. So I'm trying to follow you. Oh, God knows I'm trying. So. So, no, no, I think we were talking earlier about the agents versus the architects or something like that. Used to explain, like, the people who are, like, coming up with sort of thing. It's like. And I was watching something, and I've really tried to avoid watching the news lady, but I saw someone talking about. And it was someone that worked. And, you know, you say the word bureaucracy and it's. It's a loaded word. And everyone. And we all hate bureaucracy. That's just a word of. It gives you, like, a creepy feeling.
-
Unknown B
Frustrating word.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. And so, you know, it's like being on hold for Amtrak or whatever the hell it is, you know? You know, there's someone, you know, oh, please, God, come back. Okay, so please, God, come back. So the idea that. So this person was talking about the cuts are going to come, and they talk about eliminating a bureaucracy, and I don't know what particular department this person was.
-
Unknown B
No, no, that's not what this person was talking about.
-
Unknown A
It's a different person. I know what your person is. This is my person. So my person is saying the bureaucracy is like. The bureaucracy gets sort of like, fed from above. Somehow or other, it's fed by these people that are the architects of one side or the other. But the actual bureaucracy includes the people that can solve the problem. Like in case in this bureaucracy are people that can solve the problems. And that if you just sort of, you know, I'm not saying it's the case, but if you sort of just like zip a bunch of the bureaucracy out, you run the risk of zipping out some of the people that actually have the brains to do the solutions. And that. And what this person said was the solution to the bureaucracy is within the bureaucracy that is. Is. Is finding the people that know what they can.
-
Unknown A
What can be done, because they really do have the data. They really do work. They actually do show up for work and they actually have the data on how to do this thing. But because it keeps being fed from above all the time, there's just all this extra debris and noise that keeps coming down, that causes more clutter and more splitting and more. Something.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So, you know, I'm not going to suggest that I could solve the question of bureaucracy today, but I think there's something about what we have. We have the people. You know, I certainly, I'm going to go off on tangents now, but I always kind of had an objection to Tom Proko's book the Greatest Generation, because I thought, like, damn it, that's not my generation. Why? How do they get that? You know what? I did start reading some of it recently, and he's. To his credit, he's finding people that are very singular in that generation, that.
-
Unknown B
What generation is he referring to?
-
Unknown A
He's talking about the generation that won World War II. Okay. And that generation was formed by the Great Depression. You know, it was. That was part of what they had. And then they had a world war that lasted five years. And it's really hard for people of a certain age to understand. You know, you think you have problems with your relationship, have your, have your. Your lover go away for five years and see how well you're doing upon that person's return.
-
Unknown B
Right.
-
Unknown A
See what the hell that's like for five years. And like, you didn't answer my letter. You know, my letter. Your letter? What letter? You know, your letter never came. I was under fire, whatever it was.
-
Unknown B
And then they come back, shell shock.
-
Unknown A
And then you come back with shell shock on top of it. And then back then, the sort of, kind of. I don't want to say the macho thing, but back then people just didn't want to talk about it, which to me was part of what created the hippie generation, was kids Couldn't get their parents to talk about anything that they thought mattered. They. What their parents were talking about was like, huh, wait, what about peace, love? What's so wrong about peace, love and understanding? Right, right. So. And they couldn't get to that because even the idea of peace was a completely different concept to someone that lived through a world war. Yeah. Or lived through a depression. So these kids were like, I don't even understand who these people are. I know I'm their flesh and blood, but I don't know that. I don't know what the hell they know, why they're this way.
-
Unknown A
But he chose people that very. That lived a very intentional purpose during that very, very difficult, challenging time where they just went, I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what all this is, but I do what I do know. I do know what I do know and stay through that. And that's, I guess, that I don't know how this relates me to this idea of bureaucracy. But people that do know the facts have got to stay with the facts. Even in the face of, like, all the blunderbussing above about, you know, there's this and there's that. You've got to be really dedicated to what you do know and. And realize that there's lots that you don't know. But if you give up what you know in the name of, you know, jostling over here, you know, then. Then there's even more lost.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. No, I agree. And I think most people get involved, particularly if they get involved in something like homeless or, you know, any. Any charitable organization. Most of the people get involved, aren't doing it cynically. They're not doing it to get that big paycheck. Their initial reason for being involved, stuff like that, is to help. The problem is sometimes when they realize it's just a big clog and you're not going to be able to do any meaningful good, then things get weird and then you just sort of exist off of the system. That's not doing anybody any good. This is his argument about why so many people are working on this. Nothing's getting better.
-
Unknown A
So who's this one?
-
Unknown B
This is my friend, Coleon Noir. This is my friend who's a lawyer who went to San Francisco and saw this and so. And had a conversation with someone who's actually in government in San Francisco explaining what the problem actually is.
-
Unknown A
And the government. People say it's just. It's the government.
-
Unknown B
No, they just. There's no incentive. There's no incentive for them to do a better job. Job. And there's a very compassionate perspective in the city. They're very kind people and they don't want to take these homeless people and remove them. And that this sort of suicidal empathy that they have for the people in their city is causing this rash of tents everywhere and crime. And, you know, you can't. You have to leave your car unlocked, otherwise they're smashing windows. And it's just. That's what his perspective is. It's that there's no real incentive to do anything different because these people are still getting paid to keep it the way it is. It's not. The amount of money they make is not based on how much good they do. So, like, if they're financially. If they're incentivized to, like, you get paid more. If more people clean up, seek treatment, get.
-
Unknown B
Get on medication, get to a mental health institution, if you can show some sort of progress, it'll affect how much money you get and vice versa. If you do. If you have no progress and nothing gets done and the problem actually gets worse, perhaps you're not doing a good job.
-
Unknown A
Well, that sort of makes sense, doesn't it? You get results.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
You get encouraged by getting more money. But.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So does this remind you of anything?
-
Unknown B
It reminds me of everything. Reminds me of the government itself. What does it remind you of?
-
Unknown A
Well, I feel like there's something hanging over our heads here that's like this, the situation. And maybe it's just a continuous situation of, of like a world that gets more and more people all the time, and then more people won't have a voice and. And there's just more people shouting all at once. And there's, There's. We don't. There's not quite the same kind of agreement. We don't have like a. An ideal that we're all working for, you know, I guess not to like, cheat, but, you know, that the greatest generation, they had to fight a war to maybe save like, the sort of structure of Western civilization. There is that argument, you know. Right. That if the. The Nazi party had defeated England and you know, you know, you know, life would be different. Life would have been different, you know, and if. And if that kind of dictatorship kind of world had gone further, you know, that we'd have been.
-
Unknown A
It would have been a different world. It wouldn't have grown the way it is. But now it's grown. There's this freedom. The war was fought, I believe. Oh, there was a great quote, one of those books. Like, there's no such thing as a bad piece or something like that. There's all kinds of different. But I feel like this. Like there's no. No sort of idea that we can agree that people can agree on. That's the source of, like, a reason for being.
-
Unknown B
Well, it's a very uniting thing to be all together against a common enemy that is real, like World War II. Like, there's a real purpose to life. People understand that this is a very important mission. This is something that, unfortunately, it's one of the best ways to unite people is a threat from the outside. Well, that's what happened after 9 11. Remember 9 11. Everywhere in LA, people driving around with American flags on their car.
-
Unknown A
I never forget 9 11, what it was like to walk down the streets in New York after 9 11. There was nothing like I've ever experienced my whole life.
-
Unknown B
It was bizarre and. But it was also very united. Like, people were like.
-
Unknown A
People looked into each other's eyes. You walk by someone on the street.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And every person on the street looked right in your eyes.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And that lasted for weeks. I never. I mean, people in New York, they're head down, they look, they're reading paper, but people just looking by, like, okay, we're in this.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Together.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
And I think. Think some people actually obviously hated the act of what happened, but loved the way people reacted and how people felt with each other. It did feel different. New York City felt friendly, it felt united. It felt like people were proud to be American. We were all together. There's bad people out there. They did this to us, but we're all together.
-
Unknown A
Well, okay, so what we have here with the situation of, like, just using San Francisco as the idea, it's like. It's just a gentler version of something that we could all say. This is something that we have to.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
Go to war about.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Whether it's.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Any. Any kind of a problem that we have as a group that we all are affected by. Yes.
-
Unknown B
What's too easy to ignore? It's too easy to say, oh, there's a tense. Let's go this way. And the reality is the health of the community. It's dependent upon the health of the lowest members of the community and the social run, the lowest members of the people that are sick. And if you don't take care of them, if you don't take care of the people that are mentally ill, they're homeless, they're addicted to drugs, they're on the street, they're Desolate. They don't have friends, don't have love, don't have structure, don't have anything that they call upon. Horrible childhood, the whole deal. If you don't, if you don't look at them, then your society, sick. Because this is the foundation of the society, is the people. If you've got a group of people that are part of your community and you're completely ignoring their plight, that's not good for anybody.
-
Unknown B
That's not good for big business. It's not good for the common folk. It's not good for people in the neighborhood. Good for anybody. And it's gotten so far because it's so big now. The problem is so enormous, it's almost too big to tackle. It's almost like, okay, you're dealing with la. You're dealing with a hundred thousand people living on the street. That's so many fucking people. That's the entire population of Boulder. That's Boulder, Colorado. Intense on the street in la. That's crazy. It's almost too big. And I talked to Mayor Adler, who was the mayor of Austin at the time I first moved here, and he was. He had a bunch of plans in place to help the homeless people. And they did an amazing job because it got pretty bad here during the pandemic.
-
Unknown A
I remember there being homeless here.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, they got hotels, they put people up, they put together programs, they got people jobs. There's a company that we've had. What is his name? Alan. That we had in here? Alan Graham from Lowe's and Fishes, who we went. I went and visited his community. They set up. He has this. This community where they build houses for these people. They bought an enormous piece of land outside of Austin and he sets up work programs for these people. Gives them a sense of purpose. It's an amazing place to be. They're doing art and selling art.
-
Unknown A
It's working.
-
Unknown B
Yes, it's working.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
I mean, it doesn't work with everybody, but it works with a lot of them. And these people, they have a sense of community. They all live in a safe area. And, you know, we walked around, I brought my kids, we walked around there. It was like. The whole thing was really nice. It was really wonderful. It was really cool, what he's doing.
-
Unknown A
Well, how did that. So that guy, his plan, his way of working needs to obviously get scale out there. It's got to get around. So he lives there.
-
Unknown B
And this is a guy who has money, he lives in the community.
-
Unknown A
This man must be deputized.
-
Unknown B
Well, he's a Christian. Like a real Christian. Like, in the greatest sense of the word. Like, he's a guy who really believes in reaching out to people and helping people. This is. Yeah, this is Alan right here. He's just a wonderful guy, like a really beautiful person, and lives with these people. They're his neighbors, and they're constantly bringing people in. And he has all these different programs people can sign up for to learn arts and crafts and learn how to sell things that you've made. And it's really cool. And, you know, I mean, he's doing his part. He's. It's small in relation to, like, the problem of San Francisco or. But you need people like that that really dedicate themselves to it.
-
Unknown A
I've heard of loaves and fishes that this sounds. I didn't know all of this about it.
-
Unknown B
It's pretty amazing. It's a pretty amazing place that he's got that and he's expanding it. He's there. They're building new ones right now. So there's these small houses that these people live in, and they have, like, a community kitchen where they can go and barbecue and grill outside. And there's an arts and craft center. These people, they make cool chess pieces and they sell them. They make paintings, they sell them jewelry. They're doing all these different things, and it gives them a sense of purpose.
-
Unknown A
You gotta get this guy to San Francisco.
-
Unknown B
Yes. We need more people like him. That's what it is. It's just. He's a very unique guy.
-
Unknown A
Well, they're gotta. There must be people.
-
Unknown B
They must like him. But you. I mean, it's a lot. I mean, he lives with them. I mean, he's in the community. Has one of those little houses in this, you know, giant area filled with people, and he's with them for encouragement and, you know, it's a beautiful thing.
-
Unknown A
It sounds really amazing.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, it's beautiful.
-
Unknown A
Okay. Should we wrap it up?
-
Unknown B
Don't worry.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. Okay. Sorry I could be so long.
-
Unknown B
No, it was amazing. It's an honor to meet you. I really enjoyed it very much, and I appreciate talking to you. Thank you. Thanks for the shirt and thanks for the shorts.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, well, I'm gonna wear those. Okay. But, you know, I want to say that those shorts are very. They're forgiving shorts. So if you had a picnic. Good. Beautiful. They still fit you.
-
Unknown B
I like that.
-
Unknown A
They're good. Can people buy these? Can they?
-
Unknown B
For sale? Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, they sell. It's called William Marie Golf. They sell them. They sell them online a lot, and they I know. They sell them. They sell them in the golf shops. Some places in some stores. There. That's beautiful.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, that's it. Look at that guy. Look at that handsome fucking model.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, that's a model.
-
Unknown B
That's a good looking fella, all right.
-
Unknown A
That may be a model, too. Hey, he's definitely beautiful.
-
Unknown B
Thank you very much. I really enjoyed being here. Thank you.
-
Unknown A
Enjoy. All right.
-
Unknown B
Bye, buddy.