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Unknown A
I wann go in two directions. The first is regarding the question I opened our conversation with. In relationship to Christianity, you're a very open person and your interests flash all over and do you have any faith in the stability of what you've newly found? Or do you think that there's a risk or a possibility of your attention given your open nature shifting to something else? Or do you feel that you found a kind of bedrock that's qualitatively different from the sorts of orientations that you've had previously? Let's start with that.
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Unknown B
It feels like something absolute has been encountered which has ameliorated, mitigated, neutralized and somehow compounded and infused something that was always latent and yet corroing within me. The self. The Self as the absolute. I want this. Do what thou will shall be the whole of the and the problem with the new age, the problem with I'll have a little bit of Buddhism and I'll have a little bit of Sufiism and I'll read a bit of Foucault and I'll conjure up my own little pantheon. In fact, it was you that said it to me that if God is everything, God is anything. And I encountered that more empirically when returning to a kind of new age festival. And I thought what is this feeling that I'm having here, having since come in Christ in a new age festival? I don't. You know, I still got the other day it isorned permanently about my body as a reminder.
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Unknown B
And what it felt like is it's false idolatry. A false idolatry is predicated on a polarity between the self and the idol. Christ replaces the self. You die on the cross with him. It's the self that has to go.
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Unknown A
There is that what self exactly? How do you conceptualize the self that has to go?
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Unknown B
It's the rustleness, the observer, the witness, the Russellnessurs by default. Inadvertently, I'm always in the service of the centrifugal force around which urges projections, reflections, the intellect, the memory. They all like you once said when talking about like the word witch might have a bunch of associated words like ha.
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Unknown A
Yeah and all that.
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Unknown B
I've got Russell and Russell's memories and projections. I'GOT this sort of loose sense of a continuum of sel now.
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Unknown A
It was very deliberate that center should be replaced.
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Unknown B
Yes, he sent before. He was right. We nearly touched up on this before. Cause wbh was right, the center cannot hold. And that's what we're experiencing with the emergence of the Hydra the sovereign is unfolding, the seed is cracking open. The wh it'being born. It's being born out. Now. The thing is, is before with the narcissism, me being a devotee of the other culture, a devotee of the fullalse idolatry, I worshiped sel now at first it felt liket the pililgrimage was very sort of meekly undertaken. For I was not a robust child athlete, nor was I a high school heartfrob. I was a sort of a broken and wounded little trickster in the world. And when I became empowered at puberty and attractive and potent and then famous and it was, I felt, evolving or growing. But one of my teachers would say inflating it was like, you know, it's difficult if you'felt pretty worthless your whole life and all of a sudden there's a culture queuing up to give you sort of accolades and pat you on the back and there's a sort of an endless cortege of fellatio suddenly available, it's difficult not
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Unknown B
to think that you might not be rather magnificent.
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Unknown C
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Unknown C
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Unknown B
The reason I like I as a sort of counterweight to the feelings of inferiority, I would have been resist. I always knew something about Jesus. I knew something about Jesus. But my odd contemporary translation of that Was I want to be him. I want to be the Saviour. I want to be in direct commune with God. I want to lead. I want to be empowered. And then when the desolation came, the desolation and despair. When the Grail came again, not like the adolescent despair when you know you've got a whole life and a bunch of hormones about to hit you and elevate you. Middle age desolation and decimation, desecration, despair, despondency. When that incursion came, when those arrows landed, there was a clarification took place amidst the catastrophic white noise and haze was not just the cross, but the solitary figure, fully man, fully God, to whom we must bow down.
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Unknown B
Now. They do all they can in the United Kingdom to make ast strringent anodyne and banal. The figure of Christ, the TV shows, the ceremonies and sermons themselves and noble exceptions. I have some brilliant English Christian teachers. Jay, John, Father Dave, although he's just become a bishop and he's certainly not a Catholic minister. Father Julian at Brompton. Loads of people out of the uk. I'm not been dismissive in the widest sense. I'm just saying sort of culturally the way that Christianity is presented is somewhat mundane. And then over in this country, the United States, where we are now, sometimes they can make give it so much carnival that it can seem too sequined, glistening and ridiculous. But somewhere within all of us is that he's there. He is there, for that was his gift. He died that we may know eternal life and we may be redeemed our sins.
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Unknown B
And he bequeathed upon us the Holy Spirit. Now what I felt was again, it wasn't sot of flashbang wallet. The moment of the baptism was powerful. The moment of sort of this slowly, slowly separating fugue. And as I say, the clarification and emergence of the face of Christ was very real. And I knew what the compromise was. If there is a Jesus, you're not Jesus. You are not Jesus. You are not at the center. Neither is anybody else. He is first born among the dead. And the rest of us, we're all lined up before the throne as sinners. The people that have tried to destroy me, the people that hate me, the people that I've wronged and the people I've sinned against. All of us, just one congregation before him. My cherished and prized individuality. Sometimes that cast me so low, worthless, disgusting, worse than everybody there'sometimes self rareication and self deification.
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Unknown B
I am so spectacular. I am so marvelous. All of it now just sort of eased into I am as he made me. I am as he would have me now. I don't know that I might know. Know it'be for someone, as you say, open, peripatetic, intellectually and capricious as I've sometimes been, perhaps it would seem audacious to claim that I belong to him. But I surrender to you as my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I serve you.
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Unknown A
Yeah, it's something you want to do with care, that's for sure.
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Unknown B
So surely, surely. But to let you know that the ego is still in here. I may have given up wanting to be Jesus Christ, but I'm going to give as best a shot as I can give at being Paul. I'll come down. I'll come down from Jesus, but only so far. Oh, no. Sorry, Lord. Sorry, Lord. Paul's just a man like us. Paul's just a man like us. ACTS is full of men like us. Ephesians, written by a man like ussc. Galatians, A man like us. And now, amidst these tectonic shifts and new and emerging kings and new paradigms and new language, here he is. Christ.
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Unknown A
You know, we oay so how.
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Unknown B
Okay, so let's come and have drink, please, because that was real life as well. I ran with it because. Spontaneous. Spontaneous. Up. Don't stop. Film.
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Unknown A
Sorry. Okay, so this.
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Unknown B
This.