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Unknown A
Okay, everybody, there is a lot going on in a certain Eastern European country, and it's not Ukraine. We will talk about Ukraine, but it's Romania. Growing up in Chicago, there were some amazing Romanian Americans that I was raised with, really great people that were passionate about America. Of course, also the country of origin of Romania. It's always been a beautiful place. My wife's visited there. She's done a lot of work. But what's going on in Romania is of international significance that everyone here should care about canceled elections, people being detained for differences of opinion, and so much more to help us understand. This is the former Prime Minister of Romania. He's a member of the Chamber of Deputies and also a candidate for a new term for the President of Romania, Victor Ponta. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you so much for joining the program and for making time for us today.
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Unknown A
Please take a second to introduce yourself and welcome to the program first ofovalt.
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Unknown B
Good morning in America is not morning in Romania, but we are really looking for sunnier weather here in terms of politics. And we have great hopes after the new Trump administration came. Yes, I was prime Minister Long time 10 years ago, when Romania was trying to become a real strategic partner for the United States, when Romania was making big economic advances. But in the last years, unfortunately, a sort of network of like you say you call it in America, the deep state took over the power. It was strongly supported by some people in Brussels and even some people in your former administration, Romanian people, they just want to live peacefully, to be a part of Europe, but to have a special relationship with the United States. There was a lot of hope with new administration, with Trump administration, that we will go back to our shared values.
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Unknown B
But as you mentioned, and I'sure you want to get to the point, what happened in the elections showed us that the former system, do not surrender, do not accept the vote of the people. Last year in November, it was the first round which was cancelled based on some allegation never proved. And since then we are in this turmoil. Officially we will have new elections in May, but every day something new is happening. And I think that what is happening in Romania, it is significant for the whole fight for freedom of speech, for the will of the people and the change of the former system in us, in Europe and all over the world.
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Unknown A
So thank you for that. I know you're running for president again, which is of high consequence and also potential risk given all of the different factors. So let's just repeat what you said and it further explain this. So Romania is part of NATO and part of now the Western democratic traditions. And I put that in air quotes. And it's supposed to be a country that would respect democracy and freedom of speech and the will of the people. I don't want to move on too quickly from what you said. There was a nullified presidential election, and what was the accusation and who is able to make that decision?
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Unknown B
So let's try to explain something which is difficult to explain even to the Romanian people, the ones who get to vote. They saw a result with two candidates in the second round. One is Mr. Giorgesku, the other one a lady from a very progressive party. They qualified for the second round. It was obvious, according to all the polls and the public mood, that Mr. Giorko was going to win. And then the Supreme Council of Defending the country, which is a body chaired by the president, former president of Romania, who finished his mandate, they recommended the Constitutional Court to cancel the elections based on an allegation that it was Russian and foreign interference in support of one of the candidates. We were all shocked. First, because in our democratic experience in the last 35 years, it was first time that an election is canceleed. Second, because the allegations coming from the former president were so, let's say, really shocking.
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Unknown B
Russia interference with just US and US and Europe. And the independent observers, they just said, show us the proofs, show us the evidence. We've seen that also in your election, so many allegations of Mr. Trump being supported by Russia and we haven't seen any evidence up to now. The election were still cancelled by the Constitutional Court. And the turmoil, the angriness of the people, it's going towards the idea you don't accept our vote unless our vote is the direction that you wish. Something that Vice President Ven underlined in the recent Munich conference speech and which our political establishment rejected. But the majority of the people consider it right and true regarding our situation.
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Unknown A
So I have to stay on this for a second. So this sounds very similar to what happened in America in 2017, when they were criticizing President Trump for being a Russian agent. What was the supposed interference? Were they complaining about Facebook ads or Tik Tock or something on X? And you have a Constitutional Court that has the ability to nullify the will of the Romanian people.
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Unknown B
So the main allegation was that the Picttok campaign of one of the candidate has been massively supported from outside of the country and by a state entity. This is called in this Supreme Council of Defense statement. And then, yes, the Constitutional Court in Romania, it has the general right, like it is the Supreme Court in the United States of defending the Constitution. It doesn't say in any provision that they can cancel the election or they can. It'just guardding the Constitution. And also, and also the Constitutional Court is supposed to certify the result of the presidential election, but it has never interfered before. We had many presidential elections. We had good results and bad results depending on which candidate we supported. But it has the Constitutional Court, if you ask me very specifically, its first time in 35 years when it takes such a decision of examining and the cancellation of presidential election.
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Unknown B
That's why we are all so frustrated and so worried about the real democratic rules, because majority of us, we feel that this is not democratic, that if the people votes body made up of nine people, they can cancel this. Yeah, that'that's. That's very true and that's very bluntly said.
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Unknown A
So let me just ask the fellow European countries that are defenders of democracy, that are relentlessly lecturing America and Romania about the need for elections and we can't have autocracy. Did Germany speak out against this? Did France speak out against this? Did Italy speak out against this? The fact that you guys were not able to have an election? What was the response from the ruling class of the European elite when your election was nullified?
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Unknown B
Unfortunately, Charlie, it was the response that you for sure, you will expect. They immediately took the official statement and they supported, without having any more data than the statement from Romanian authorities. And they said, yeah, it's obvious that Russia has interfered. And I would also add that your former state secretary, Mr. Blinken, maybe in 48 hours had the same opinion and the public, he published his opinion. We support Romanian government and authorities on canceling the election when the administration change and we are happy for this. It started to be a real debate and it started to first of all, the US new government to ask questions really, what are your proofs? What are your evidence? How did you take such a decision? How do you want to give us your partners clear messages that you will respect the will of the people? But December, as you regarding your very direct question, the European establishment and the Biden administration, they just took it for granted, the short communication of the Romanian authorities and they didn't check, they just supported without getting too deep into this.
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Unknown A
All in the name of democracy, the Western governments who constantly are telling us that autocracy is growing, that for some reason we have to cancel elections. So I know that you're going to be running for president again. I want to get into that, but let me Just ask a more broad and general question. Of course, Romania was in the Eastern bloc for decades and lived under a form of totalitarianism, outsourced totalitarianism and communism and Marxism. I know you're running for the presidency again and you were a former prime minister. Are you concerned that the country that you love, that you want to serve again, is becoming more like a Soviet top down dictatorship than a Western liberal democracy?
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Unknown B
I am very concerned because I've seen what happened in Romania in the last years and because you mentioned, yes, we come from the Communist bloc, but even during the Soviet time, we succeeded to preserve our national values, which is loving our country, religion, family, traditional values, which are very close to our mentality. And in the last years, we felt like coming from Russell's this time, not from Moscow. It was the same effort of trying to change our values, our mentality, our traditions, and the reaction of the people, including myself, it was like, look, we want to be in Europe, we feel well in Europe, but we want to be Romanians and we want to put Romania first. And that's why the majority of Romanians there were clear supporters of President Trump when saying America first, it's something that not only Romanian people, but I think the Eastern countries felt even more than the Western ones.
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Unknown B
It was a sort of dictatorship of unnatural and unspecific values. From Russell, besides the huge bureaucracy, the hypocrisy coming from there, and this very easy Orwellian speech, if you are with us, you are good. If you disagree on something, you are with Russia or you are with somebody bad. It was a huge pressure, and this is how I explain why. The two candidates coming from the government, from the main parties, they did not even qualify for the second round. It was first time in our democracy and it gave a very, very strong message about what Romanian people really want. A big change. Not changing the Moscow times with the Brussels times. We don't love Russia, we are afraid of Russia. But we see United States as being our ally, which will guarantee not only our military safe, but also our values and our democracy and freedom of speech and everything that we and our parents have fought for.
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Unknown A
So I want to. I want to continue on that, which is. If you are elected prime minister again, how would you position yourself with the incoming Trump administration? How? Because the new German government seems to be saying we must decouple from the United States. You're running for president. Prime Minister. I'm sorry? You're running for president. My apologies. And so if you are president again, how would you position your country? With the United States. When it comes to not just international geopolitical matters, but also ones of domestic concern, how should Romania and the United States work cooperatively?
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Unknown B
I strongly believe that first of all, the values, most of the values that the Trump administration is trying to reinstate in United States are not only acceptable, but are feeling very familiar to Romanians. Once again, to put your country on first position, you put the United States and President Trump is doing this. We should put Romania on the first position always and to fight for our sovereignty and our national interest. Also once again, that respecting all the people. But we have a tradition, we have a religion, we have our values which should be respected. And in Europe, we just have to be member of a club, but not surrening our tradition and our national interests being more concrete regarding this new. Because it's a new, let's call it a conflict between US And European establishment. First of all, I think that the idea of change, it's more than necessary for Europe like it is for America, whatever.
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Unknown B
It's important about reducing bureaucracy, reducing, getting back to the real values, cutting off the soro fake values that were imposed. It's something good for Europe and it's something good for Romania. Besides that, in terms of security, Romania wishes to contribute more. We just, we understand that we cannot just say we don't care. America will defend us against Russia. So it's US Concern to bring here military. No, we want to share. We want to have a very pragmatic approach saying, look, Romania can afford now to pay to invest more as long as we have a strong and reliable partner in the United States. And I strongly believe that Europe is going to be weaker without United States. I strongly believe that NATO without United States doesn't exist and doesn't work. And it's the interest of Romania and it's in the good interest of Europe to strengthen the relationship military, politically, economically with the United States, not to look for a conflict which will totally what totally be disadvantage of my country and Europe.
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Unknown A
During your premiership, the Romanian economy grew quite significantly. And also what was your proudest achievement when you were prime minister? And what would you have done differently? Maybe in hindsight, from 2012 to 2015.
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Unknown B
So when I was prime minister, this is something that to my big surprise, my enemies and my friends are sharing. The Romanian economy was growing based on very low taxation and less regimelementation. And also we strengthened the partnership with the United States and we tried. I was the one to start the big projects with American companies regarding our natural resources. Romania is a very rich country, human richness, but also natural resources. We started the exploration for the natural gas on the Black Sea. So big economic projects which made the life of Romanians much better. And they felt it like this. They felt it in their pockets. They felt it in the quality of education and health. This is something that Romanians really appreciated. To see the economic growth. What I would do differently, and I will do differently, I will take President Milay of Argentina.
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Unknown B
I will take maybe not a silver. We are a very rich country in gold. I will take a gold machine and cut our bureaucracy. And also I will start the fight with the only bureaucracy which is worse than Romanian. I mean, the Brussels and European bureaucracy. I think this is the biggest problem for development of Romania and Europe. And besides the bureaucracy, because this is very important to mention. The Soro network ruled Romania, still ruling. And it doesn't rule Romania in the interest of our people. I think the values that they imposed of us, they were wrong values. And I'm sure that I will assure that Romanians are living every day based on their values, not on imposed values.
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Unknown A
So thank you for mentioning that. Let's dive a little bit deeper, if that's okay. George Soros is well known here in American circles for pumping billions of dollars into our communities, our neighborhoods, our district attorney races, trying to thwart the will of the people and trying to turn America into an open border. No crime enforcement, weakened, disastrous country. What specifically has George Soros and his foundation, Open Society foundation, done in your country? And if you win the election, what would you do about it?
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Unknown B
The wor thing that people financed and supported, not only by Soro NGOs, but sometimes even from your USA DEF funds. And we were so happy to see that you started in America to unveil how those funds were used and how those funds were used against the interest of the people, but rather to control different countries and different nations. So the most, maybe the. The worst thing that they do, they try to control the judiciary and a lot of prosecutors and judges, they just persecuted people for, because we were promoting different political ideas. They prosecuted people for having different opinion on social networks or in the media. They, the storage network, build up a sort of network of analysts, reporters, journalists here, influencers, who are just telling us this is the true. These are the values you have to obey to this or otherwise our prosecutors will prosecute you for something else.
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Unknown B
And now just crossing my mind, I remember that the biggest protesters against all energy and natural resources projects that we started with big American companies. So the protesters, they were openly financed and supported Byro. That's why we remained so much looking to our resources without being able to use it for our people. It was a very bad network and it is still in place. And they are the one telling us right now, Trump is bad, America is bad, we have to fight with them. But thanks God, the public mood this time really changed. And it's not so easy to be intimidated or manipulated like it used to be before.
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Unknown A
Well, I am thrilled to hear that. So anything else you want our audience to be aware of? About why you are running and the stakes and who is your opposition? What is the contrasting political party, what are they advocating for? It kind of educate our audience that the separate visions that are being presented to the Romanian people.
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Unknown B
So I would just wish to take this great opportunity to talk to you. You have so many followers, so many people in America. First of all, to tell you that majority of American people, they really look to the United States like the model for democracy and for freedom. And even my parents, they looked to this, and my grandparents, they were waiting for the Americans to free us, to make us live in peace and freedom and democracy. And it's still the same. And I also wish to tell you that all the Romanians, most of the Romanians who are working in America or with US Companies, they try to prove that we are good partners and reliable partners. We share the same value. We like to go to church, we like to go to family. We like to love our country and to be allowed to do this.
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Unknown B
And I am m sure that even that we are not such a big country, but we are a significant country in this area. You can rely on us as long as you find the trustworthy people. I strongly believe that this partnership is a win win. It's not Romanians asking from Americans. It's rather let's live together on the same, sharing the same values. Let's do business together, let's defend together and pay our fair share for this. And let's make America great again and make Romania free and independent again.
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Unknown A
I love it. Let me just play a couple pieces of tape here and I would love to get your reaction. I'm not sure which one is here. Let's go to cut 209, please.
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Unknown C
At the point, of course, that the situation has gotten so bad that this December, remote Romania straight up canceled the results of a presidential election based on the flimsy suspicions of an intelligence agency and enormous pressure from its continental neighbors. Now, as I understand it, the argument was that Russian disinformation had infected the Romanian elections. But I'D ask my European friends to have some perspective. You can believe it's wrong for Russia to buy social media advertisements to influence your elections. We certainly do. You can condemn it on the world stage, even. But if your democracy can be destroyed with a few hundred thousand dollars of digital advertising from a foreign country, then it wasn't very strong to begin with.
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Unknown B
Yes, was listening. I was listening to the speech of Vice President Ven. And for most of the Romanians, it was like, you see, they come to help us when we need our president. Our politicians, they wereraged. Oh, it's not true. But yes, it's true. Are we a strong democracy then? If we are a strong democracy, we don't use undemocratic tools to cancel election. We have to prove if Russia has been involved or not. Otherwise the people went to vote. You have to respect that vote. That was the message that I got from Vice President Veance. And I think it was what the majority of Romanians wanting to hear. And they were pleased to see that our big partner finally has such a strong voice supporting the Romanian people. Will.
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Unknown A
Very good to have you on the program, sir. Thank you for all of your time. I would love to visit Romania. However, I will say this, as a Westerner, I don't know, under current leadership, if I were to come to Romania, I might be arrested under the direction that it's going. So we need you to win the presidency or whomever, whatever party. And then I would imagine I would be welcome in your country. Is that correct?
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Unknown B
It's more than correct. You will see, Romanians are wonderful people. It's a wonderful country. And we will. We will fight for our rights. And we will be most welcome to a new free and democratic Romania. I'm sure about it. And it's going to be very soon.
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Unknown A
We'll be watching very closely and hopefully you'll be able to restrain the sorows influence and return to a free society. Thank you so much and best of luck.
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Unknown B
Thank you so much. Go help us.