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Unknown A
Just balls and strikes here. Very simple idea. Trump comes out and says on Friday at the White House crypto summit, which I think is great that the White House is doing crypto summit. I think it's great. They're going to do regulation. Trump comes out and says, here's how it's going to go. Everybody in crypto pays a wonderful crypto tax. Crypto transaction tax, not tariff. It's the crypto transaction tax. It's going to be wonderful. Everybody pays 10 bips. They pay the vig to the crypto reserve. Problem solved. We're not spending any taxpayer money goes directly to taxpayers. Maybe we do a crypto dividend. Maybe everybody gets a little crypto. Would that be a nice Alex? A little crypto for everybody. Alex from this week in startups in the first row.
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Unknown B
I thought we were broke, Mr. President. I thought. I thought we were. We were flat broke.
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Unknown A
Okay, no dollars. Listen one more time. He's a low iq. Low IQ Lib. Okay? It's gay rights. I love the gays. Okay, Good for Trump. Huge. Alex Wilhelm, low iq. Alex Wilhelm. It's a tax. Crypto people pay it, not the Americans. So I think this would sound.
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Unknown B
Are you saying that crypto people are not Americans?
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Unknown A
Have you met him? Alex? Very interesting people. Maybe from Mars. I mean, maybe Elon will find crypto people on the red planet. I mean, he's capable of doing it. Okay. Anything's possible here.
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Unknown B
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Unknown A
All right, everybody, welcome back. It is Monday, March 3rd. I'm Jason Calacanis. He's Alex Wilhelm. A lot is going on. We might as well get right to it. Yesterday our fine President did pump 2.0. Trump 2.0 has his second crypto moment. And Alex, I broke and I am continuing to break my 72 hour rule. What's the 72 hour rule? We wait 72 hours wherever Trump says something to try to interpret. Now, this one is directly involved with startups, so there's no way not to lead with it and everybody's got an opinion on it. But why don't you tee up what happened yesterday and then we'll talk about what's happened since. And my, you know, as many of you are here, if you're on the biggest here to hear my opinion as well and my take on it. So I'll give my take. Please don't aggregate me, bro.
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Unknown B
All right, so going back and down a little bit, the Biden administration, famously, I would say, critical of the crypto industry, led to a lot of bad vibes between the Democratic Party and crypto entrepreneurs here in the United States. Then Trump won, partially thanks to crypto support and there was a lot of anticipation that he would be a very crypto friendly president. One idea that had been flooded, Jason, was the creation of a bitcoin strategic reserve. The idea put some of the national wealth into bitcoin, a scarce asset, and then over time it will appreciate in theory and then help us resolve some of the debt now probably not have to make an enormous dent. But it wasn't, you can kind of see it then this weekend we got this instead, which is a little bit different. Instead of what we thought Trump was going to put out, he instead launched in a first post over on Truth Social that that there will be a US crypto reserve, not a bitcoin reserve, and that it would include assets such as xrp, Solana and Cardano.
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Unknown B
Then everyone asking, well, those aren't the assets we expected. He had a quote, Truth, I believe.
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Unknown A
A retruth, a retroutruth.
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Unknown B
Thank you, Jason. That bitcoin and Ethereum, the actual best known cryptocurrencies, would be included as well. This led to a pump in the prices of these tokens, as you can see here. Jason, be prepared to start. It led to a pump.
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Unknown A
Okay, so Trump likes to jump the gun on all announcements. So we know that. And remember rule number one in Jason's seven rules of interpreting Trump is Trump says a lot of wacky. Number one. Trump does a lot of wacky stuff. That's rule number one. Rule number four is always wait 72 hours by trying to interpret what he says. Because see, rule number one and almost always his process is to, you know, do process journalism. Process pr, I guess we call it process pr, which is your process journalism is you're like, hey, our tip line said FTX is a house of cards. We don't know it's house cards, but you kind of run fast and loose. Tons of criticism of process Journalism, because you can, you know, slander people or you can just kind of go down rabbit holes. It feels unfair and not well thought out.
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Unknown A
Well, Trump does the same thing in terms of PR and announcements. They're not well thought out. They're not planned. People don't know what he's going to say. And he got that from Howard Stern. Howard Stern, the reason for his success made famous in a great film called Private Parts, based on his autobiography, was this famous scene where Paul Giamatti, who is his manager at the station, gets the results because he's trying to fire Howard Stern has been forced upon him by NBC radio. Howard Stern refers to him as pig vomit. So you can get a sense for their relationship. And he says, I don't understand. Why are people listening to him for 47 minutes? That's unbelievable. It's like a record. And it's like, because they want to hear what he's gonna say next. Right? And then he says, oh, okay, well, tell me about the people who are detractors.
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Unknown A
He's like, oh, they listen for 97 minutes. He's like, what? They listen longer and they hate him. These people hate him. Why is that? And he said, number one, reason stated, they want to hear what he's gonna say next. So here we are. Trump 2.0 says a lot of stuff. The world went crazy on this because now you have to wonder why those three. Well, they are three of, I think if we open coin Market cap. Coin Market Cap tracks the market capitalization, the total value of crypto projects. In fairness to Trump, I believe, you know, it's right now Bitcoin, Ethereum, which you put in his follow up, and then XRP tether, which is a stablecoin. So you can kind of take that out. Bnp, Solana, usdc, Cardano. So of the top eight, you need to take out the stable coins, which I think is two of them.
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Unknown A
The top six, the five he picked are five of the top six. Right. And I don't know what BNP is.
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Unknown B
But BNB is the Binance house token.
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Unknown A
Oh, okay. So is that like a stablecoin or is just our house crypto?
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Unknown B
Okay, so it's our house script.
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Unknown A
Yeah, got it. Okay. So, you know, anyway, in fairness to Trump, he did pick the top five. If you were to pick a crypto reserve. The problem with all of this is after the meme coin, the Trump coin, which then the sec. We talked about this thing on Friday. I believe my interpretation of what they did was they wrote regulation around Trump's behavior, or I should say a different organization that the Trump Organization runs. So there's this World Liberty company and this is where everybody's mind's going to wander. World Liberty Financial Inc. I believe this is run by one of his children and I believe that person is Eric Trump. Now everybody on the left is going to say, this is a pump and dump. This is a Trump pump. There was Trump Pump 1.0, which was Trump coin. And now here we are and the SEC had to make an announcement about meme coins.
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Unknown A
And I believe they kind of frame them around Trump's behavior to kind of get him out of hot water. This is not the type of country anybody wants to live in. Now, you will not hear Republicans complain about this. I'm a moderate. Let me just say that from the beginning, I'm pro crypto, I'm anti fraud. That's all you need to know about me. I'm pro free markets. And we can put me aside for a sec. When you do things, you have to look at the game on the field. The game on the field right now, Alex. And I'll stop on this and get your reactions because your reactions are also as a libertarian liberty, I would describe you as a liberal left to Tyrian, left Aarian, but you're also pro free market. So you're like a Clinton esque Democrat.
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Unknown B
Capitalism, democracy, gay rights.
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Unknown A
Okay, fantastic. Love it. Check, check, check for me on all those boxes. So the left is now going to have a field day with this and they will weaponize it. And this is what's really, really disheartening to me. And the right will ignore this. Just like the left ignored, you know, the Hunter situation, which was pretty gnarly. The left ignored Biden's cognitive decline. I believe that ultimately. And we'll see what Jake Tapper's new book comes out with. I think ultimately that will wind up being one of the great cover ups. And the second time we've covered up a president in cognitive client. First one, of course, Reagan. Right. So now this is going to result in the same chaos we had during Trump's first term and into Biden's, which is Lawfare. You can easily weaponize this because Eric Trump, I think, works at World Liberty.
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Unknown B
Financial and he's become effectively the biggest crypto supporter amongst the Trump family. Jason, you actually retweeted him and he said, buy the dip and had the bitcoin B symbol of our call, Berkeley.
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Unknown A
And then I think today he retweeted somebody kind of questioning him giving financial advice and Then he's like, oh, no. Now my advice is basically to hold. So here's the challenge, I think. So let's just start with point one. The challenge in all of this is this is going to derail, or I believe it will derail, what I believe is some of the good work of the Trump presidency. I am, everybody knows, never Trumper, who was a very clearly none of the above double Hadrian this last election. That being said, yes, whoever WINS, I give 100% of my support to my president. He's my president. Once he becomes president, states, yeah, I'm old school, Gen X or whatever, criticize it if you like. I'm not part of the resistance on either side. I am, hey, let's steer the president towards greatness. Call balls and strikes as best we can.
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Unknown A
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Unknown A
So here's your quick call to action. Do you want all Gusto has to offer with no hidden fees? Well, how about a discount? Try gusto and get three months free. Gusto.com/ that's G-T O.com twist now we're going to go into crazy lawfare. I believe attorney generals, civil suits and they're going to drag Eric Trump, World Liberty, anybody who donated. Michael Saylor, Brad Garlinghouse from xrp. This is going to drag all of them into lawsuits and chaos by local attorney generals because obviously the federal attorney general is selected and seems like pretty partisan.
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Unknown B
So anyway, I want to jump in on the. You won't hear about this from the right mostly. But to my surprise, Jason, there have been some notable dissent. So I want to grab. Here's Joe Lonsdale, atvc. I believe he's a. And Joe says for those folks on the audio Version, taxation is theft. It should be kept to a minimum. It's wrong to steal my money for grift on the left. It's also wrong to tax me for crypto bro schemes. Efficient Defense Corps, national park, blah blah, blah. Fine, cut it out with these schemes, guys. This led Jason to another interesting bit of commentary from technology circles. This is from Nikita Beer, of course, a well known founder in the social media consumer application space. And he says in response to Joe, this is getting egregious every two weeks after Kick Back to the Family completely delegitimizes all the work Doge is doing.
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Unknown B
And so when you say specifically that this is, you know, not. We were hoping from the administration that you wanted Doge to do well in other things. I agree. It's depressing to see what seems like really unnecessary side quests of Grift when some folks were pretty content with what the immigration was doing before this stuff.
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Unknown A
It's interesting. I think people agree Lonsdale is a true independent thinker. You're not going to agree with him about everything, obviously, but I will give him intellectual credit points because once you become a partisan and you're part of a political party, rule number one is never criticize anybody in the party. Carry the party line, vote the party line, period, full stop. And we see that when you have so few people break ranks when, you know, you ever get a vote in the Senate or something like that. Right. It's always party lines, always party line. This is why I choose to not be part of either party. Because I like to be able to tell you my audience and to have discussions from first principles with you, Alex and other folks. Yeah. So I give your Lawson a lot of credit. I saw David Sachs came in and I just give a little disclaimer here.
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Unknown A
I was Sacks and I are friends for 20 years. We're partners in the all in podcast. He is no longer on the all in podcast. Officially he does drop in as a guest as he has himself stated. So he. I think it's come in two or three times since he took office. He's been very clear. He divested all of his crypto. That's a public tweet. He did. Number two, he said wait for the announcement. So he is enforcing the 72 hour rule. You know, nothing's been said yet. So he is the crypto czar.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
Well, just for, you know, good hygiene here, when we refer to David Sachs, please don't reaggregate me, please don't weaponize me against my friend and say oh. Sachs's bestie and business partner is anti Trump. He's a Never Trumper. He's a Trump. True. Go to jail, whatever. It's not going to work, folks. It's not working when you try to weaponize Trump versus, you know, Elon. It's not going to work when you try to weaponize me versus my friends. We can be friends and disagree on things. That's called America.
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Unknown B
Also, everyone should chill out with parasocial relationships. And, you know, I don't think we need to break up friendships. That seems to be like, a bridge too far.
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Unknown A
It's so lame, you know, like, what are we doing here if we're going to have a great democracy and we're going to lean into what's great about America? I can disagree with Sachs. Sachs can think I'm an idiot and dunk on me on Twitter. It's all good, folks. We can still be friends. He can dunk on me. We disagree profoundly about Ukraine. We agree on so much when it comes to crypto. And in fact, I believe he is the best actor in the world. And he is one of the most moral, ethical individuals I've met in my life. Now, he's part of an administration. So the previous thing I said is rule number one when you're part of an administration is not attack other people in the administration because they weaponize that against you in this sort of context. So you're not going to hear J.D.
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Unknown A
vance throw Trump under the bus. You're not going to hear Trump throw, you know, I don't know, Tulsi Gabbard under the bus. They're going to be thoughtful about these things 99% of the time.
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Unknown B
What was the first rule of Trump?
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Unknown A
Oh, yeah, he says a lot of stuff.
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Unknown B
Right?
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Unknown A
So he does say a lot of stuff.
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Unknown B
He pops off sometimes.
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Unknown A
Yeah. All right, so let's just read Sachs's tweet out loud, please.
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Unknown B
Yes. Quote, and this is a response, by the way, to the Joe Lonsdale tweet, which is one reason why I wanted to have that up so everyone can see it.
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Unknown A
So please read it for a minute.
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Unknown B
In response, quote, nobody announced a tax or spending program. Maybe you should wait to find out what's actually being proposed. And this actually brings up a big question, which is, okay, if we're going to put these assets into a trust, how does it work? How do we fund it? Where does the capital come from? At what price are we buying in? Who's going to custody the assets? There's a million questions to this, Jason. Yes, and I wish that we had had the full package up front. It might have cleared some of the air that has surrounded this because criticism I went out and found or tried to find criticism and compliments about this. Crypto reserve has jumped it out. Very easy to find criticism even amongst the right leaning technology crowd.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
Hard to find any praise of it. I found one tweet from Sean McGuire of Sequoia saying legendary thoughtful comment from.
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Unknown A
Naval I thought was pretty great.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
He attacked it and assessed it from a technological viewpoint. 23 hours from the taping of this, he said the US taxpayer should not be exit liquidity for cryptocurrencies that are decentralized in name only. So he's talking about everything but bitcoin and this is super important. I agree with him wholeheartedly. Bitcoin is decentralized from day one. Now there is somebody who owns whatever, I don't know, Satoshi owns some large amount in a wallet. So perhaps we'll argue at some point if that person cashes those in and we see that wallet become active, that hey, this is some grand conspiracy. But it's, it's decentralized. Right? That person let go of it. XRP is the opposite. And in fact, if you pull up the lawsuit from the SEC in 2021, part of which XRP won, the recap of it, I believe they couldn't prove that the XRP founders were selling to retail because the retail trading was occurring on platforms.
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Unknown A
So they couldn't sort of connect those dots. Doesn't mean that they're not guilty of stuff. It just means they couldn't make that connection. And then there's still an act of lawsuit. I believe the other part, which is they did a billion dollar unrecognized security. I believe that's obvious. Then I see Brad Garlinghouse stumping for Trump. I believe that he's a major donor to politicians. I don't have the details on it, but you know, he was at the crypto ball, et cetera. And XRP supports everything and slashy cashies, XRP all over the place, which was the nature of the lawsuit. They were talking about how much XRP is being, you know, gifted around. Somebody in her comments here made a joke. Brad should just give a billion dollars in XRP for free to become legal to the sovereign wealth fund. That's actually, that's actually a pretty good speeding ticket.
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Unknown A
I kind of like it on face value if he has an idea.
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Unknown B
The appearance though is you donate money to the president and then they put your asset into their reserve, therefore, as the kids say, pumping your bags. And I want to circle back to the David Sachs thing because I did see people saying that David Sachs Firmcraft has backed a number of crypto firms. True. And I do think it's great that the firm and Sachs invested their direct holdings, but I don't think you can really unlock an LP investment firm relationship is my guess. My presumption is that he's put his percentage in Kraft to the side, but it still exists in some way. So I think he's doing what we can expect him to do there. So I have no beef with that. But people were saying that bitwise, one of the companies in his orbit has a number of funds that hold crypto assets and those are the ones that were being picked.
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Unknown B
But I just want to say I went through their filings today, I went to the fund prospectuses and so forth. And as far as I can tell, these are just things that are investing in the top 10 cryptocurrencies, for example, much like we pointed out. So when it comes to conflicts of interest, you have to do the work which Sachs is doing by divesting and missing out on a pump to his new defense. Yeah, but it is tricky when you are an investor in companies that have exposure themselves because you can only disentangle yourself so far. So I don't think the criticism is fair that he is being malicious. I just think that he's stuck looking bad. And this is why in government we try to even avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. And that's why this is sticky.
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Unknown A
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Unknown A
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Unknown A
And there was a report. And this is the thing about crypto. And this is where Eric Trump, I believe, is going to become like the Hunter Biden theme of this presidency, you know, for better or worse, fair or unfair. Because he says a lot of stuff, too. So now you get Eric Trump saying how brilliant it was to. He's blocking me, by the way, so I can't pull it up myself, which is fair. I have been critical at times. He says how brilliant it was that they did all this on a Sunday. So he's kind of like almost taunting regulators. He's taunting folks with his tweets. Here's an idea. Say less. Best advice for Eric Trump. Your dad's the president. Your dad's being the crypto president. The crypto lobby, I mean, I think the crypto lobby. The numbers I've seen thrown around are extremely high.
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Unknown A
If we read what he said. I love the genius of announcing a strategic reserve on a Sunday when traditional markets are closed and Wall street sleeps for the first time, retail investors win. So he's trying to kind of save himself there. Like I'm on the side of retail. Traditional finance better catch up quickly become extinct. The world no longer runs Monday, Friday night to 5. And then he asked World Liberty 5.
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Unknown B
To hashtag BTC, hashtag ETH. The gist here for folks who don't know what we're talking is that the stock market opens defined and runs for defined hours. Jason takes holidays off. It closes early. It's only for a set period of time. Crypto markets 124 hours a day, seven days a week. And so if you wanted to make a trade on, say, Coinbase. After this, you'd have to wait for the markets to go more or less. Whereas crypto is always trading. Doesn't matter what time of day or day of the week.
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Unknown A
Let's move to predictions so we can wrap this up. Okay. Number one, this is a terrible idea. Number two, just a terrible idea. And the reason it's a terrible idea is because it's going to launch just so many legal issues, and it works against what I think are the three most important things Trump is really mandated with doing. If we look at why Trump won, I think number one was immigration in the border. I think he's done a reasonably great job on that. He's deporting 500 to 1,000 hardened criminals per day. We haven't heard much about it for two weeks. I'm sure it'll pop up again. But that was actually something the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted to see. 89% of people want to see, you know, legal, thoughtful, immigration. Number two, Doge, people want to see the end of waste, foreign abuse. He's doing that.
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Unknown A
So you might not agree with how it's being done, but that's like the second part of the mandate. And the third part is, again, and you might not like how he's going about it. We won't get into Ukraine's situation, but stopping foreign wars and diplomacy, I believe, actually he's very good at that. I think he will end the Ukraine war where Biden didn't. It'd be very hard for people to give him credit for that because of the stylistic way this is going down. But I think he will come to a great agreement, a grand bargain, if you will, with China. I think people don't like the stylistic points on what's going on in Gaza and Trump, Gaza's, you know, like pure lunacy with the AI video. Pure lunacy in reality television, with what happened in the overall office. I actually think kind of crazy like a fox.
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Unknown A
I've talked about it before. Crazy's on your side. I think he will on those three fronts. We'll be sitting here in two or three years. I think he could accomplish those three mandates in the first half before the midterms. This is the kind of stuff that will derail everything.
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Unknown B
So can I just say, totally orthotic, but I was drinking feed to say inflation, because to me, if I was to pick the number one thing that won Trump the last election, it was inflation, partially due to spending in Trump administration, one partially due to Biden won.
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Unknown A
The inflation went up during Friday. Incorrect. Trump 1.0 impacted that. Correct.
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Unknown B
That's what I thought was the number one issue. The other things I think kind of nest into that, in my view. But that's off topic. I was just.
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Unknown A
I think actually that's a really good point. I do think the American public was fed up with the inflation issue, while at the same time the stock market was at record highs and unemployment at record lows and wage growth was reasonable. Putting that aside, I don't think the President actually has too much of an impact on. I mean, I think they can screw it up like the Fed did, but I don't think the President actually has too much impact on that, so. But you are right, that is part of the mandate. And I think we saw the inflation handle look pretty good. Right.
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Unknown B
Just last week, the inflation handle looked pretty good. So there's some conflicting data there. I'm worried about gdp, but I just want to pull up something regarding the Trump family crypto and situation. British Record found a Telegraph article that said that Trump's true social company, which is TMTD from Media and Technology Group, says it'll put up to a quarter billion dollars into assets, including cryptocurrencies. I just chased that down via the IR website, and that does appear to be correct. And they may put it into bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies. So you could very much argue that if tmtg, which Trump owns a big chunk in, followed through on its public announcement, Trump just pumped his own bags to an absurd degree.
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Unknown A
Right. So if that's all true, we got to put all the ifs and caveats there.
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Unknown B
Yes, allegedly caveats and so forth. What a disappointment though it is that this is what we're doing. Because all he had to do, Trump, was say, we're going to do a thing that's going to yield bitcoin for the government, we're going to put it into the central reserve. And he would have gotten such a big PR win from the crypto community, from a lot of folks on the Internet, and it would have been kind of a slam dunk. Would it have been a policy that changed the world? Probably not, but it would have been a nice pat on the head for his fans. Instead, we're here, and this is like the thing about Trumpism that I don't. I don't get. It seems that there's a way to do things that his audience would like and then he does something else.
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Unknown A
And I'm always, like, perplexing to me, yeah, Another name. I'll just put it out there to track that people have been whispering to me over and over again is Justin Sun.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
So he is a businessman. This is CNN if you trust it or not. This man who pumps 75 million into the Trump family backed crypto token finds himself in a fortunate position this week as federal security regulators are hitting pause on their civil fraud cases against him. Again, we're going to just see this over and over again. Whether these things are the normal course of action or not, everything is going to be assumed to be a corrupt grift going forward.
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Unknown B
Well, I just pulled up some reporting and some tweets from sun and it does appear that he put another 45 million into Worldly Financial after previously put in 30. So that is a $75 million purchase into an asset controlled by the Trump family, more or less. And then you'll know that he's, I think he's superstrapped.
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Unknown A
So okay, you want me clean the whole thing up for you?
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Unknown B
Hit it.
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Unknown A
I've talked about this many times, a crypto tax. Ah yes, the old crypto tax. Now Sacks retweeted Joe and said, hey, wait for the details. Okay, perfect. I don't advise any of my friends on what's going on. I stay out of it. So I'm arm's length. The same way Sack sold his crypto, Sachs sold his J Coin. I am not collaborating with Elon on Doge Sachs on whatever Robert Kennedy, I know some of these people. I am not collaborating on anything because I want to call balls and stripes here and on all in again, independent. I voted Republican one thirds time, Democratic two thirds of the time. I'm not part of either party. I'm double headed. I keep repeating that because people keep trying to frame me as some libtard like crazy like Kamala Biden supporter. I said very clearly I wasn't gonna vote for them.
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Unknown A
So I have been saying this for many years. Here's a tweet from December 14, 2024. If the government wants to build a strategic reserve in bitcoin crypto, they should place a tax on it. That being crypto, every time you buy or sell it, you pay a small percentage in actual cryptocurrency to the government's wallet. Just 50 basis points or even 5 basis points will result in massive holdings. And most crypto folks would gladly pay it in order to have a legal framework. I mean this is my little cheeky at the end, gets me a little bit of trouble. I mean it would be a shakedown and a protection racket are probably worth it. All right. We all know if you're a founder or even if you're a small business, you're thinking about your company 24, 7, 365 days a year. That's the life of a founder.
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Unknown A
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Unknown A
But just understand that 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn said that it helped them find the best candidates. So find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses already use LinkedIn for hiring. So here's your call to action. Post your job for free. Why wouldn't you do it? It's free. F R E E that's a good price. LinkedIn.com/once again, that's LinkedIn.com/ to post your job for free. Terms and conditions do apply. Just balls and strikes here. Very simple idea. Trump comes out and says on Friday at the White House crypto summit, which I think is great that the White House is doing a crypto summit. I think it's great they're going to do regulation because again, we talked about too hot before Gary Gensler. Too cold with Gary Gensler. Let's try to get to just right because we're in a just too hot time period right now.
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Unknown A
Officer, those Trump comes out and says here's how it's going to go. Everybody in crypto pays a wonderful crypto tax. Crypto transaction tax, not tariff. It's the crypto transaction tax. It's going to be wonderful. Everybody pays 10 bips. May have heard of bips. Bips is a little word. B I p s. 10 bips. They pay the vig to the crypto reserve. Problem solved. We're not spending any taxpayer money goes directly to taxpayers. Maybe we do a crypto dividend. Maybe everybody gets a little crypto. Wouldn't that be a nice. Alex? A little crypto for everybody. Alex. This week in startups, in the first row of the.
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Unknown B
I thought we were broke, Mr. President. I thought. I thought we were. We were flat broke.
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Unknown A
Okay, no dollars. Listen one more time. It's a low iq. Low IQ library, okay?
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Unknown B
It's ro.
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Unknown A
Gay rights. I love the gays. Okay, Huge. Alex Wilhelm, low iq. Alex Wilhelm. It's a tax, okay? Crypto people pay it, not the Americans. So I think this would sound.
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Unknown B
Are you saying that crypto people are not Americans?
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Unknown A
Have you met him? Alex? Very interesting people. Maybe from Mars and you maybe Elon Musk and crypto people on the red planet. I mean, he's capable of doing it. Okay, I got to go a humor here, but what do you think of my idea? Just say everybody knows Trump reads my tweets. Everybody knows that. That's definitely true. People are sending his tweets from. Because he did the golden Visa based on my 500k just at a zero. So I said do 50 pips or 5 bits, he's going to add a 0.5percent or 50 bits with his range.
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Unknown B
What's the average rate on like, I don't know, 10, 20, no limit holding table at casino?
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Unknown A
I think you're. It'll wind up being like 10 bucks an hour per person. So 100 bucks an hour. You play 20 hands, that means 5 bucks a hand. That's my guess. It's like they charge in big games. Yeah, when you play a big game, they don't take it out of the pot because the pots get really big. So instead of taking a percentage of the pot at 30 minutes, they have a timer. And at 30 minutes, whoever has the button pays the entire thing. Or at 30 minutes, everybody frozen. 6 or $12. So at a big game, you're paying like 100 to 250 an hour to the casino. So you play a 10 hour session, they make $2,000. The dealer's getting paid probably 10 bucks an hour, 20 bucks an hour. Give me a waste. Plus tips.
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Unknown B
Yeah, but tips fly to dealers and things are going well.
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Unknown A
Ooh.
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Unknown B
So that's my analogy here is this is fine. Let's go do it. Fine, we'll just do it a little 10 bits, 15 bits. I'll take 20. I can see how that would make a lot of. I just think you run into people who couldn't see the good for the, oh, my God, it's tax. And would therefore kind of lose their mind about it. But I think we can close with this. When we have all the details, we will bring this back up. But in the meantime, after crypto prices went down and people began to lose some of their crypto enthusiasm, here is a shot in the arm which is good for startups in the sector that are building stablecoin tech, like stably from the Twist 500. I'm going to close.
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Unknown A
Have they been on the pod yet?
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Unknown B
They have not been on the pod yet. They are on our list to invite.
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Unknown A
Let's get them on.
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Unknown B
Okay. Can we close the joke though, on the sector on this story?
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Unknown A
I mean, I mean, yes, we can. Crypto people want to have the government out of your wallet. Unless they can have the government in their wallet.
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Unknown B
They want the government out of their bag, but holding their bags up.
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Unknown A
I mean, that's basically. I mean, it's so ironic. The crypto people were like, we are the anti government money system. We are outside of government. We don't want anything to do with government unless we can get a quick pump out of this. And that's really the problem. And consumers can be heard. Jacqueline.
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Unknown B
Melanie, previously tech rich, now she runs a company that does essentially investor relations for Tokens. It's kind of a cool company. Anyways, she had a great tweet and it shows a guy covering his eyes throwing dart towards the dartboard. Says headed to the local dive bar to help the White House pick more cryptocurrencies for the crypto strategic preserve. And I think this summarizes people's views.
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Unknown A
Pretty good. Pretty good.
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Unknown B
Okay, let's talk about Ramp. Jason, this is a big round of Ramp has come to place. Yeah, I mean, okay, let's go back and down, talk about what ramp is. Ramp, when it launched back in 2019, was considered to be effectively a Brex. Me too. A Brex also ran a Brex clone. And that means it was working on corporate cards. And it had this early idea of what if we helped our customers save money. So it had this, we'll go through your expenses, we'll find duplicates, we'll help you save a couple of bucks. And honestly, I talked to Eric Lyman back in the day when it was smaller, and I was a little bit perplexed by the bet because to me, Brett was doing well. It raised a bunch of money. Seemed to have a lot of brand passion adjacent at the time. But Ramp has grown from strength to strength to strength, adding new products, raising New capital.
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Unknown B
It did have a valuation dip after the boom, but now the news is that Gramp is now worth $13 billion after a $150 million secondary transaction. A lot of money moving around here. Big numbers. My first impression is twofold. One, big secondaries mean later IPOs. And isn't it great to see fintech back in the sun?
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Unknown A
You know, fintech is just such a great space. We had Vlad on, on Wednesday. I don't know if you caught that episode. He's just tremendous. And the. The thing that's great about fintech and technology is fintech has just traditionally had so much friction and it's been so slow and arduous and painful to do anything when I'm working with companies like Mercury, with Ramp, with Robinhood, with Wealthfront, any of those platforms, Coinbase. And we are. I own shares in Wealthfront and Robinhood, I think, out of that cohort. And I. Yeah, that's it. I think that's it. And I think Mercury and Ramp have both advertise on the sweet start, so I guess on a.
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Unknown B
Disclosures. Yeah.
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Unknown A
Well, when I have to deal with a traditional bank, which I have to do because I can't use these new services. I wish I could for venture funds, Right. And for audits and for accounting, all that stuff. And then people come to me for wet signatures. You know what a wet signature is?
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Unknown B
Is that literally like, involving ink?
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Unknown A
Yes. And I'm like, what planet are we on? Like, how about if this is so important, you have me state my name into a video and take a picture with my IP address and a timestamp to validate it's me, like I just did for my Twitter subscribers. In order to collect money on a platform like Twitter, they make you verify your identity. How do they do it? You take a picture of your driver's license front and back. You take a picture of yourself. When you do remote health, they have you do something similar, right? I don't know if it's a video or a picture. This is how the world has moved. If I'm opening up an account that you know, some bank, why don't you turn on my camera, let me take a picture of my driver's license, take a picture of myself. You have the IP address, you got my phone number.
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Unknown A
Then you call me back with a live person, make sure it was me. Did you just take your picture? Then send me an email. You can do like a triple authentication with a person with technology, you send a link to my email address on file, you call me on the phone with a human being, you ask me my test questions. You have a second phone number from somebody at my company, and you check them as well. Which, by the way, is going to become the practice with AI because everything I just described, you could use AI to try to fake. Right? You can make a deep fake.
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Unknown B
That was literally what I was thinking. Like, IP addresses are spoofable, blah, blah, blah.
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Unknown A
But yeah, in order to, like download somebody's Bitcoin or every dollar out of their account, you want to get them on the zoom, you want to get them on the phone. You want to do two or three of these things live. Yeah. See what shirt I'm wearing on a FaceTime call. See what you're wearing on a regular phone call. You get the idea. So be cautious out there. But, you know, this is why these companies are so great. As you remove friction from a product, consumption goes up. As you make a product faster, consumption goes up. As you offer a wider array of services that delight customers and solve problems for them, engagement goes up, revenue goes up. I think that's the story of this cohort of, you know, I think they call them Neobanks. New bank actually have equity. New bank who are venture firm that invested in it.
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Unknown A
And I never sold a share. Actually have some exposure to Square, which is now called Block. Block. Again, I didn't directly invest in those two. I don't take credit as an investor. I was in a fund, so I get credit for investing in the fund.
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Unknown B
So good to hold. Stuff has done well. And Block's historically done pretty darn good.
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Unknown A
Did you see that? I'm right behind Pelosi and Inverse Kramer on the rankings. I had a tweet. Somebody took my J Trading portfolio and they benchmarked it. I'm up 35%, apparently in the last year. So I'm like two points behind. I'm two points behind Pelosi tracker. God damn it.
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Unknown B
So here is. Here is Jason's tweet, but sadly, he is losing to the opposite of Kramer Burry, famously the man who bet on the right side of the subprime meltdown. 44%. 43. And then there's our boy Jason right there, 35%.
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Unknown A
Somebody emailed me about doing an ETF, speaking of like fintech, so I could put, you know, ETFs are like, you can set them up for a couple hundred grand or something, and then people can invest in your ETF and you get fees on it or something. So I can create ETFs, dump my Robinhood into it. Yeah, this is a feature Vlad should do. Like if you have over a million dollars in holdings, you should be able to press a button and create etf.
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Unknown B
There was a startup that lets you essentially track your friends portfolios and you can buy the same stuff as them. So this idea is not novel, but with technology, back to your point, making things easier, faster than finance, why couldn't you set up an ETF for a couple hundred k charge back to bits, 50 bits or 100 bits?
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Unknown A
Yeah, people might want to follow it. I mean this is my vision for Twist 500 by the way, is to create a Twist 500 like a $10 million SPV or something and then put one of my people on buying secondary in the top twist 500 companies. And then you're like, hey, here's twist 501. Twist five one is 10 million. You go to twist 500. Com the way see this project, non top 500 private companies as it's good fun. Yeah, I think it's good fun. And you know, we, we're going to kind of track them here and then as they become public, we take them out and there'll be a bit of a competition for them over time. You know, my idea would be, hey, you set up a twist 500 and then you say to the fund manager myself and like maybe have a collaborator on it.
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Unknown A
See what the current secondary price is on the secondary markets. Let's build an index of them. So then I like if I wanted access to those companies and I wasn't directly investing in them, I could put. And I would. I put like a million of a 10 million in. And then somebody goes and says, okay, we look at the price of superhuman and calm on the secondary market. Here's the last valuation, current valuation. We know management, we asked, you know, Raul and Alex and Michael over at and super. Would they mind if we buy secondary directly from their folks or we bought them on the secondary market, then you get exposure. Yeah, it'd be kind of interesting, right, because there's the Destiny 100 or something. The publicly traded one that has SpaceX and it kind of flies all over the place. I don't know what about it.
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Unknown A
Anyway, yeah, that's interesting ideas. Congratulations on the huge valuation to the team over there. I know we used ramp cards. I don't know if we currently use them, but I remember during a conference or we had a getaway and it was really cool. Maybe I don't know if they gave you one, but we gave ramp cards to everybody who was traveling. I Think they might be using Mercury for this now or another company. But anyway, I remember specifically a couple years ago, we used ramp cards. 25 people working on a conference. I think it was actually the only summit one. We just issued them ramp cards for their expenses. And we just said, use this for your expenses. We see the expenses coming in and then, you know, for Ubers, we can do an Uber account because I have Uber for business, but for everything else, here's your Ramp card.
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Unknown A
And then we can turn them off or take them from, you know, $1,000 limit per card down to zero. So if somebody goes, you know, AWOL and takes, you know, the ramp card and wants to go to 11 or whatever the club in Miami is and hit the strip club or the, you know, erotic review at 11, you know, the most damage they can do is a thousand in funny money.
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Unknown B
I don't know how far they'll get you at a strip club in Miami. I have no personal experience. I don't think we go very far. Really Briefly on the ramp story, just to kind of add a couple quick notes here for folks. The company is now on an annualized revenue run rate of 700 million, up from 300 million before. I thought that was very impressive.
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Unknown A
Times 20 is 14 billion. And you said the valuation was 13. And we don't know their growth rate though, do we?
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Unknown B
We don't know the growth rate recently. Gross margins, because we're talking about payments to some degree.
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Unknown A
Do we have any number of revenue from 2010, 2012? A whisper number, 2013, that would be interesting because then we could do the two year growth on average, which would be perfect. But we should assume this company is growing greater than 30% year over year in order to get a 20 times top line revenue. Remember, that's price to sales, not price to earnings. So on a price to sales basis, this is 20 times. Palantir kind of broke all records with like whatever peak at 60, 70, 80 times their top line revenue with I think 30 or 40% growth. You know, companies like Airbnb and Uber might be trading at 2, 3, 4 times growth. And those are incredible businesses. So just to give people some context here, private companies do get great price to sales ratios. Meme stocks that have great leadership and great products can get a great otherworldly price to sales ratio.
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Unknown A
But eventually these are going to come down to the price to earnings, which is their profits, as you pointed out.
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Unknown B
Found some stuff for us here before it turned 3. So in March of 2022, the company had reached 100 million annualized revenue and summer of 2023 that was 300, now 700.
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Unknown A
Doubling.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
50% to doubling probably very impressive.
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Unknown B
And then I just want to point one more thing. Secondary, Jason. $150 million of secondary takes a lot of pressure off the company to go public. Even by current standards of 500 million in revenue before you go public. It's above that. We're not gonna see IPO for a while. I was trying to sort out why I was reading some stuff from Charles Hudson's Love that guy and he's had a blog post about to hit a couple things that I wanted to say. One was he's not sure that these companies leadership teams really see the benefit of going public. And the emergence of secondary liquidity for founders and early employees means you no longer need IPOs. And I think those things combined with the fact that companies are going faster and therefore they're creating value more quickly and therefore why would you want to let your amazing business go public and lose control over it?
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Unknown B
So I think there's a lot of things that are coming together to allow companies like Ramp to do this. Even if you and I would love CNS1, I don't think the people with money in Ramp are in a hurry.
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Unknown A
There are reasons to go public. Even with this vibrant private market, we can stay private forever. Liquidity to do bigger transactions, M and A. But because M and A was taken off the table, you took that public currency as a weapon off the table. Better hygiene and a more fluid liquidity market would be the other reasons. But again I should point out the private markets reward this. The question is, can the LPs you know, who are early investors, liquidate to somebody else? And we saw this with Stripe, I think was it Stripe that Sequoia famously had in the earliest funds? I believe it was even in Scouts fund that I did Uber and I think Sam Waltman did it. They offered their later stage funds to buy that 12 year old position, whatever it was. And so that was like really interesting because now you've got the same firm selling to a different LP base under the same moniker Sequoia.
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Unknown A
And you just have to sign off on that. You have a little more paperwork back to wet signatures so people understand like hey, and this happened I think with also SpaceX folks earliest stage fund in there and then they offer their other LPs who might want access to it. So now you're going to have funds buying and selling in the same round. This would be the equivalent of me selling to Masa personally As a Scouts, as a Sequoia Scout and then buying from let's say launch fund in the secondary before it goes public. I didn't do that. But that's what we're going to see which is then Andreessen Horowitz launch. Even other folks are going to look more like a market maker in some ways. Selling their early stage investments to the same LP base or maybe a deeper pocket in LP base but still part of their network that's actually going to lock in for the top 6% of the country, qualified purchasers and accredited investors.
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Unknown A
All these wins and what does it do? It locks out everybody in America who's not an accredited investor. Profoundly unfair. Well this is where the Trump administration could do something with an accredited investor test and solve a lot of problems.
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Unknown B
Before you get on that soapbox, I think that what's important to say is it's not just accredited investors, it's accredited investors with access to the funds that are access to the deals.
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Unknown A
An even tighter subset. Yeah.
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Unknown B
Oh, I mean 6% to 0.006% I mean there's not that many VCs out there. All that's to me a little bit disappointing. So I would see more public market appreciation for companies. But I'll just say that there is one company, Jason, that people say is going to list lots of news from Bloomberg and the information that Core Weave is finally going to go public. This is the first time for a company raise $13.4 billion in total capital inclusive of secondaries. But Jason, we talked about neoclouds, these GPU based data centers that people rent to run their AI compute and we've had a lot of questions about the economics because chips are expensive, right? Okay.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown B
The information costs some data or as.
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Unknown A
People in the industry call it, the disinformation. That's what these Cs and CEOs call it in the, in the private chat. They don't call it that. They do.
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Unknown B
Is that because they're salty at its success or salty that they might get things wrong?
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Unknown A
I think it has to do with the general standoffishness of the people who are building stuff in the world and the people reporting on them and the intersection of, you know, the Dunning Kruger effect and ah, they wrote about my company, half the stuff is correct, half is wrong. Obviously it is. Journalists are just have half the information.
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Unknown B
Well, people want to tell us more stuff. We could do a better job. Well, I mean so it's like any framing that I disagree with is clickbait. You know, I mean, people have this is everyone.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown B
Where was it? Okay, so the information reported that Core Weave's revenue in 2024 was about 1.9 billion, 8x year over year. Super impressive. But here's the kicker. Jason, let's play a fun game. I'll put you on the spot. Ok, what Core Weave's capex costs were last year.
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Unknown A
All right, Core weave has raised 13 billion to date. They are going to go public at 30, 40 billion. They are one of the top purchasers of GPUs. They got the line and they did this a long time ago. But you said last year. So in 2024, which would be a peak year, but they had to put those orders in previously. I'm going to guess maybe 5 billion.
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Unknown B
You know, my guess was 4, so you're closer than I was. It was actually 8.5.
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Unknown A
Wow. Okay. A lot of GPUs. You know, whatever these GPUs are going for a quarter million, 150, I guess, depending on how they're stacked out. A lot of GPUs. And as we've seen, people keep vacillating between we don't have a use of these GPUs and we don't have enough GPUs to use. We don't know how to use them. We don't have. We can't get this job done unless we get more. So both things can be true concurrently and we can vacillate back and forth because human beings are innovative little buggers. You know, we're going to figure out, oh, I know how to do this with 90% less technology and less hardware. Congratulations. And then you hit another roadblock where you're like, oh, you know what? We could have indexed every frame of every HD video in the world. You know, that made training data based on this.
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Unknown A
And if we make synthetic data or we do deep research and we do 200 web page analysis concurrently, then have, you know, 10 threads put those deep research analyses together and then we do another 10 to check the facts on those. Like that's what's happening with these deep research things is they figured out with the inference side. Hey, how do we put all this inference to use? I know, we'll have a fact check. Or by the way, now we can have agents running. Here's an idea. You did these 500 queries last year. We're going to do those 500 every day, twice a day, A thousand a day on your behalf. 365. And when you wake up every morning and say, hey, by the way, here's the interesting things that change in July searches. Just like Superhuman now is going through and pre populating and doing the summaries of your emails.
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Unknown A
Raoul disclosed on Wednesday. Check that episode out, go to the sweet startups and follow along. He disclosed that they do those summaries even if you never see them. So they have them there. This is like pre caching stuff, you know, very interesting. They're going to do your replies in advance, they're going to do the source in advance. In other words, things are getting so cheap that they're like, oh, there's extra inference here, let's just do your entire mailbox. And since they charge a buck a day, 30 bucks a month, whatever it is, they can do that, whereas Gmail cannot.
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Unknown B
Yeah, but here's the thing, it's already so cheap, you can do that for a buck a day. Oh my gosh, that's absolutely astounding. I've done that one day.
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Unknown A
That's what they charge, which means they're probably spending 5 cents a day on this.
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Unknown B
That's insanely cheap and very exciting. As a little identity before we jump into kind of what we call founder corner, I think why is Core Weave going public and why is it happening after we just said that no one's going to go public? The answer is the capex number, everybody. If you're not building software, you have to buy a lot of stuff. You need more money, you go public to raise a lot of money. Tesla did this when it was public and raised bajillions of dollars very effectively and worked great. So I think they're going public to have a liquid currency to raise more money and so forth. Let's bring our different lawn hairs on. Is going to talk to us about a founder hack and this lawn is one that I adore. It's from Matt Turk and it's kind of one of those what if he took the world and turned it upside down ideas.
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Unknown B
Okay, he tweeted this the other day.
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Unknown A
I thought it was interesting. A few quotes and how they would apply to a few of our biggest sort of most successful startup companies. Tech companies at the moment don't do services well. But what about Palantir?
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Unknown B
Hardware is hard.
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Unknown A
What about Nvidia, Apple, Tesla, SpaceX? Selling to the government is awful. What about Andreal? So generic startup advice is often terribly wrong. Is his conclusion based on all these sort of conventional wisdom gone wrong ideas? Well, you got to parse each one of them. Two of them or three of them actually Overlap or two of the three kind of overlap.
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Unknown B
Hardware is hard.
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Unknown A
Selling to the government is awful. If you look at, you know, SpaceX and Anduril, they're both doing both of those things. Hardware is incredibly hard. Tesla and SpaceX showed, and Nvidia, Apple of course, did it a long time ago. But that startups could actually do hardware. Hardware's art is a warning. It's not necessarily don't do it, it's just going to be super capital intensive. And selling to the government is awful. The way I would say instead of awful, which is, you know, kind of a nebulous word, is it's slow. It's slow, it's time consuming. So you put those two together. What that means is if you do succeed, you have a great moat. So incredibly hard to displace a company like SpaceX and those contracts because, gosh, you know, look at how much has been invested over 15 years in that company and their technology.
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Unknown A
So it is good advice for founders to know that hardware is hard. It's great advice to know. Selling to the government, it's difficult, I can tell you. In education, perfect example, the companies and the startups that tried to sell to the government for education had a really hard time. The cycle was incredibly long, incredibly slow. The people who then sold directly to consumers, duolingo for language, brilliant.org one of our startups for math programming, et cetera, or in the healthcare space, fitbod and nutrisense. Com from our portfolio did wonderfully. And you can actually hybrid this lawn, sell to consumers first, perfect it, and then upsell to the government. So if, you know, I think com.com and some of those other folks in the wellness space now, they are going to sell not just to consumers, but maybe they get covered by healthcare in their second decade.
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Unknown A
So you can kind of thread the needle, which is get that immediate feedback from customers, make it work with them. And then the low, slow, methodical, larger purchase orders from corporations can come in after that. Tone base, another one selling directly, you know, to sell people how to play musical instruments. I'd love to see tone base at some point. You know, a college or a high school could offer tonebase and brilliant to their entire student population. And then if the students use it, they pay or the school pays or the school pays for, you know, whatever. 10,000 a year to have Brilliant available to all thousand students. 10 bucks a year is a lot less than 10 bucks a month. You know, you get the idea. So Angel University, I started doing this where I teach people based on my book angel how to become Angel Investors.
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Unknown A
And you know, if I don't charge for it, nobody shows up. So I charge for it. 500 bucks for the virtual, $1,000 for the one in person. I'm doing it April 23rd, New York City. It's going to be a dim sum restaurant. And then I this has to be updated. But any profits from Angel University. So, like if I hosted a dim sum restaurant, we take the cost of the dim sum out. What's left over, we don't it. All right for Lon Harris and Alex Wilhelm. He's at Lons A at L, O, N, S. Four letter club. Alex also four letter club. A, L, E, X and me coming in dead last.
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Unknown B
Dead last.
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Unknown A
Five letters in my hand. I'm at Jason. We'll see you all next time between stars. Bye.