-
Unknown A
Do you think, given the stuff you're doing in AI and longevity, that the people that are alive now have a shot at living forever?
-
Unknown B
I think they definitively have a shot, if you're in reasonable health for the next five, six years of extending that health span, another health span, right? Lifespan healthspan, another 20 or 30 years.
-
Unknown A
And so say that in another way in the next five to six years.
-
Unknown B
So by 2030, I think we're going to enable everyone who's in reasonable health today to intercept breakthroughs that will add an additional 20 or 30 healthy years of life. What's interesting is that during those additional 20 or 30 healthy years, we've got quantum computing, we've got digital superintelligence, we've got new capabilities of modeling cells and modeling entire organisms to understand why we age, how to slow it, stop it, reverse it. And might that get us to living forever? Perhaps. Maybe there's some fundamentals that we don't understand, but I think there's pretty much nothing that we are not going to be able to overcome as humans in partnership with digital superintelligence.
-
Unknown A
Okay, so if I'm understanding that right, so average life expectancy here in the US is something like 78.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, 78, 79. And average health expectancy. Right. So your, your heart's ticking till 79, but you're healthy on average till 63, which I am right now. I'm 63 years old. I find myself in the best health I've ever been. And I feel blessed about that. But I work on it, right, every day. I was in the gym this morning. I'm what I'm eating, my mindset, my sleep, all of these things. And so there's a 17 year gap between when your health runs out and how long you live. The first goal is, can we close that gap? Can we keep you healthy, you know, fully till 80, and then can we start to extend that health and that longevity?
-
Unknown A
So you're more confident that we can extend health than we can extend the total amount of time that people live?
-
Unknown B
I think, I think that we will be able to definitively expect to get over 100 years old and get there.
-
Unknown A
We're already there, right? We know that humans can live to what, 122? 122.
-
Unknown B
122 is the record today. And we know that. We also know that there are life forms on this planet. The bowhead whale can live to 200 years. The Greenland shark could live to 500 years old, have babies at 200 years old. When I was in medical school, I remember reading that or watching it on a documentary, I said, why can they live that long and why can't we? And my first reaction was, it's either a software problem or a hardware problem and we're going to be able to solve that. And I think this is the decade that those solutions are coming into existence.
-
Unknown A
Okay, so talk to me about the mechanism. What is it that makes you more confident in health versus just the, Is it pure, just. I don't know enough about what makes something stop running that makes you unsure that you can go beyond 120?
-
Unknown B
Yeah, let me, let me give a few previous basic concepts. So number one, humans were never designed to live past age 30. If you think about this 100,000, 200,000 years ago in the savannahs of Africa, before there was birth control, you were in puberty by age 12, you were pregnant by 13, you were a grandparent by 27 mm. And before we had McDonald's and Whole Food, before we were living in a food abundance and food was scarce. If you wanted to perpetuate the species, the last thing you wanted to do was steal food from your grandchildren's mouth so you would die. And so we are in peak health at around age 27, 28, 29. And then it's a measurable decline from there. What do I mean by that? Our stem cell populations throughout our body will reduce by 100 to a thousand fold. In the compartments, our hormonal levels begin to rapidly decrease.
-
Unknown B
Our growth hormone, our thymus, which trains our T cells, goes away. Our muscle begins to atrophy, sarcopenia, and all these things are slow degradation. And so that's the first thing to recognize. The second thing that we should talk about is when you're born, you get 3.2 billion letters from your mom and 3.2 billion letters from your dad. And that's your software that's running in 40 trillion cells. And you've got that same software when you're born, when you're 20, when you're 50, when you're 80, when you're 100. So why do you look different? It's an interesting question, right? I mean, why don't you have a six pack at age 100 that you had when you're 18? And it turns out it's not the genes, it's not the software you're running, it's what genes are on and what genes are off. And that's termed your epigenome, from the Greek word for above, epi.
-
Unknown B
And one of the hottest areas of research right now, funded by a number of billionaires. Brian Armstrong from Coinbase is funded a company, Jeff Bezos, Yuri Milner. And these companies are looking at can we reverse your epigenome? Can we turn on the genes that were on when you were younger and turn off the genes that were off when you were younger and bring you back to an earlier state of youth? And so far the science says yes. Now the question is, can we do it in humans while the trials are going on in non human primates and other animals? And the people that I respect in the field believe that we can, we can do this. So are there, are there fundamental limitations of thermodynamics that we don't know? But the other thing that's going on is, you know, each of us, when you have a mom and a dad who are, let's say, age 35 and have a baby, the, the zygote, the, you know, the fertilized egg, starts at out at age 0, even though the parents are 35 years old.
-
Unknown B
And what we've shown by serial nuclear transfer, where we take the nucleus out of an adult animal and put it into an egg and let it grow up into an adult animal and take the nucleus out of that adult animal, put it into an egg and let it grow up, that can be done over and over and over again without penalty. So there is, in our, in our makeup, that ability, can we unleash it? I think that this is the decade that we figure that out.
-
Unknown A
Do you have a sense of why technology is going to help us figure that out? Like, is it we need AI for the pattern recognition, Is it we need quantum computing to run enough simulations fast enough that we can let AI then get the patterns that it needs to detect. Like in the crazy amount of data contained in our DNA, DNA, it needs to start sussing out, like, what are the patterns that lead to good health?
-
Unknown B
Basically? So we're a collection of 40 trillion human cells. We don't think of ourselves as a collective, but we are that collaborate and work together. We have an additional, you know, 40 to 100 trillion other organisms, bacteria, fungi.
-
Unknown A
Nearly enough about that.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. And each of these human cells is running about 1 to 2 billion chemical reactions per second.
-
Unknown A
That's nuts.
-
Unknown B
It's nuts to think about that right now. You know, you could, you can't orchestrate that. It's happening automatically. And so there's no human doctor over the last, you know, 10, 20, 30, 100 years that can understand that. And why do some people live till 105 with their mental faculties and they're still at work. And others are sick at age 60. You know, a lot of it has to do with their diet. And, you know, the whole make America healthy again is a very real thing. Our pharmaceutical and food industries are destroying a lot of, you know, a lot of issues there. We can get into that if you want, but a lot of it has to do as well with their, Their genetics, their physical makeup and AI can help us understand that. Understanding why you age, how to slow it, stop it, perhaps reverse it.
-
Unknown B
One of the things that's going on, the Nobel Prize just got given away recently to Demis Hassabis and John jumper at DeepMind for AlphaFold. And so here we see one of the first real Nobel prizes for an AI capability. What is AlphaFold? When I was in medical school, God, some decades ago, the super computing problem that was always, you know, like 10, 20, 50 years out was could you go from an amino acid sequence, you know, a sequence of amino acids, a thousand or five thousand of them, to predicting the folding of a protein and how proteins fold is everything. It's the structure that is your antibody or is your muscle, or is your, you know, the structures in your body. And it was always very difficult. But they wrote a AI program called AlphaFold that is accurately able to. To achieve that within a single atomic radius, which was incredibly crazy.
-
Unknown B
Then they created AlphaFold 3, which is able to. To simulate the interaction of all molecules of life, like this DNA, this sugar, this protein. How would they interact if they're putting a chemical solution together, where they're going next is, can we simulate an entire human cell or can we simulate in silico on computer that billion chemical reactions per second? And then next step, can I take your DNA and simulate your cell and simulate your organ and simulate you and know without any question that if I give you this drug, it's going to work in this way for you. Better than doing a human trial.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. This is the kind of thing that makes me go, maybe we really do live in a simulation. The reason I think that we were talking about this before we started rolling. As a game developer, the thing that you realize is, oh, my job is to create a set of rules. And so all I'm trying to do is create a very predefined set of rules that yield, in the case of game development, something that's fun, right? But you, you really are down in the level of physics when this happens. The character should react this way or the gun should fire this way, you know, whatever, whatever, and you start asking yourself, well, wait a second, if I build rules that aren't necessarily player instigated or related, but exist.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
Now all of a sudden you can create this setup where things can interact in ways that would surprise even the game developer. And when you start thinking through that problem of like, take Minecraft and I want Minecraft, where a player will, and they'll rearrange things and leave and when they come back, the crop should keep growing or whatever while they were gone. Right.
-
Unknown B
Well, you've seen that simulation, right, where they put a thousand AI agents into Minecraft and they developed an entire economy and you know, currencies and I was insane.
-
Unknown A
Now what I want people to realize is that's just because there's a set of rules. And so now every interaction point has a predefined set of ways that, that can go. And so when I look at, okay, why is technology the thing that's going to allow us to move forward? It's because all of the rules of the way that a human cell works are knowable. They're just not known. Yes, but they are predefined. And whether this is a simulation created by God or a 13 year old programmer in another dimension almost becomes irrelevant. We are in a rules based world and as we can tease out those rules, then we can unlock the potential of what it means to know those rules. So if you know that aging is based on this really complicated interaction just to simplify it for people, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong as the person that has the degrees, but what's really going on?
-
Unknown A
This is an epigenome phenomenon. So you have this little thing that runs along your genes and either says, this should be wrapped tight and not red.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
Or this should be unwrapped and red. And what ends up happening is your skin cell begins to unravel in the wrong places. And it's like, am I an ear, a skin cell, a hard cell? What am I? And so you get this de differentiation and that is aging. And so if you could go, okay, I know what this gene in your body is supposed to look like. And so now I'm going to put something in there that helps. Basically the thing that lives inside your cell already, the epigenome readers, creatures, whatever, they actually move. It's crazy. I don't know what to classify them as. But if you had something, I was like, no, no, no, that one's not supposed to look like this. It's supposed to look like this. Now you're just saying, as long as I know the rules and I have a method by which I can nudge these things to act in the right way, then to your earlier point, I don't see what it is possibly that we would run up against now.
-
Unknown A
It requires us to be able to manipulate things at that kind of protein level, but it doesn't.
-
Unknown B
Ray Kurzweil, who's been a mentor and a business partner and friend, one of the leading thinkers in AI, who believes we're going to reach this idea of longevity, escape velocity, which, by the way, you know, is the moment in time where for every year that you're alive, science is extending your life for more than a year. Right. So you depart and it goes to infinity. He thinks we're going to reach that by the end of the year, 20, 30, right.
-
Unknown A
Five years from now.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Insane. And then, you know, in speaking to folks like George Church and David Sinclair, their prediction is the mid-2030s, you know, a decade from now. The point for everyone listening here is we're in a magical time. Your job is to take care of your body, keep yourself healthy enough to intercept. Like I, you know, say in the title of my book, don't die from something stupid in the interim. Right. You don't want to be the last person not standing in this regard. And Ray's belief is that a lot of this is going to materialize on the backside of nanotechnology, which is a set of technologies. Originally Freeman Dyson wrote about them, and then Eric Drexler wrote about these. And it's the ability to manipulate things on an atomic level. Right.
-
Unknown A
Is nanotech real today?
-
Unknown B
Nanotech is, and I've had a lot of conversations on the subject. It isn't fully. It's wet nanotech. What nanotech is today is the ability to design proteins that do things for us.
-
Unknown A
Still novel proteins or.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, brand new. Like, it's like we need a protein that can have an arm that sticks out and attaches here and does this. And so wait, wait, wait, wait.
-
Unknown A
We can. Yes, we understand how these structures happen to the point that we can actually create novel protein structures.
-
Unknown B
100%. So that was part of the Nobel Prize as well. And wait, wait, wait.
-
Unknown A
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, so I didn't know this. So we're not just mapping these enzymatic processes yield this protein. We're saying we understand the sort of lego e nature of a protein and now can create any shape we want.
-
Unknown B
So there is a program called Alpha Proteo also put out by DeepMind, in which you can design the protein that you want, translate it into an amino acid sequence and have a ribosome manufacture it for you.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
So what that means more than just being able to create. I like that legoized novel proteins that do the stuff that you want to do. It's a future for medicine. I mean, if you think about it, how do we find medicines today? Historically, we've gone into the rainforest and chopped down plants, dug up dirt, bring it back, process it, see if there's anything bioactive in there, sprinkle it on some yeast, give it to some mice, and then eventually, maybe after 12, 13, 14 years and two or $3 billion, have a drug which by the way, works for only typically 20% of the people it's prescribed to. Imagine instead. Okay, I know that this disease path, if we could block this active site on a cell surface, that would cure it. Let's design a protein that blocks that active site, design it, manufacture it and run.
-
Unknown A
That's bananas. I didn't realize that was the state of the art that we had already reached. That is crazy.
-
Unknown B
So it's accelerating. Another thing that's interesting, if I could. I don't know if you have. You've had Jack. Have you had Jax Hidary on the show here from Sandboxaq.
-
Unknown A
We were literally just talking about him before.
-
Unknown B
We're targeting. Yeah, so Jack's a dear friend. He's on my board at the xprize and he was at Google X and then he spun out SandboxAQ. The A stands for AI, the Q stands for Quantum. They began with 500 million dollar seed round.
-
Unknown A
Is that all?
-
Unknown B
That's all.
-
Unknown A
That's quite the seed.
-
Unknown B
It's called inflammation. It's called, you know, inflation or really rich, rich investors. Long story short, I just met, I did a podcast with him on my Moonshots podcast and we're talking about a number of subjects, but he brought his head of general manager of AI simulation. I love that term. And she's amazing. I'll have her on stage at the Abundance Summit with me in March. And what they're doing is they're using AI and quantum equations to be able to simulate at the atomic and sort of the electron level what's going on on chemicals. On molecules. They basically take the equations that govern a quantum universe, Schroder's equation and such, Heisenberg and certain uncertainty principle, and they, they create what they call LQMs, right. Large quantum models, and can begin to model the physical universe at an atomic and subatomic level. It's insane.
-
Unknown A
So to get the accuracy that you need for some of the biochemical stuff, you have to be dealing in quantum level mechanics.
-
Unknown B
Yes. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
That is fascinating. What is the state of quantum computing right now? Is it real? Is this still 30 years off?
-
Unknown B
Well, I mean it's real and getting real. Er, so we were talking about beforehand, Google just had an announcement of latest breakthrough. Willow, what is the breakthrough?
-
Unknown A
Is it stability?
-
Unknown B
It's the stability. So the biggest issue has been as you growing the number of qubits, the quantum bits that the error rate has gone up and you need error free quantum bits to do anything. And I don't pretend to be an expert in, in Willow, but apparently the bigger that system is growing, the more stable it gets and the more logical qubits it has. So I'm going to be diving into that. I mean that was just announced, but it's, it's exciting. But the point being that we can model quantum on AI systems today before we have quantum computers and help us understand that.
-
Unknown A
Okay, so I don't know if you understand the process by which that works, but basically they're able to what, simulate what a quantum computer would do.
-
Unknown B
They're able to take the laws of the quantum universe again. Right. There are four or five basic laws and use those to help simulate what's going on on a molecular basis and atomic basis. And this is for them to make predictions and designs of new materials, of new drugs.
-
Unknown A
So AI, if I'm understanding the process correctly, it would have to be something like this. AI is creating essentially synthetic data that it's training itself on based on the laws of quantum physics.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Okay, so this is why, going back to longevity, this is why I am so absolutely thrilled and excited about what's coming. Right, so we'll get back to the.
-
Unknown A
Show in a second, but first let's talk about something that's on everybody's mind. The dollar is not what it used to be. The markets are more unstable than ever with way too many variables changing at once. And if you're paying attention, you know, traditional investment strategies might not be enough anymore. That's why I want to tell you about today's sponsor, American Alternative Assets. They specialize in helping investors diversify with gold, a nice, finite, inflation resistant physical asset that's preserved wealth for thousands of years. Now, what stands out about American Alternative Assets for me is how simple they make it. You can transfer or even rollover funds from your existing retirement accounts, 401ks or IRAs, without selling your assets, no taxes, no penalties. If you're ready to explore gold as a part of your investment strategy, call 1-888-615-8047 or go to tomgetsgold.com again. That's 1-888-615-80 47 or just visit tomgetsgold.com this is a paid advertisement.
-
Unknown A
Now back to the show.
-
Unknown B
I'm, you know, I've been focused on the longevity science and business for now, 12 years. Right. I was in a dozen years ago when you and I first started. I had started Human Longevity with Craig Venter and Bob Hariri and then have been building companies, built a $600 million venture fund investing in this area. We just launched a $101 million Healthspan Prize a year ago. And for those who haven't seen it, you can go to xprize.org thank you to you and Lisa for having been benefactors of the XPRIZE and supporting us over the years. And we've put up. I raised $141 million. Challenging teams can you deliver a therapeutic in under a year to individuals age? I think we're in the age bracket of 60 to 85. And during that year, you can reverse functional loss in muscle, immune and cognition. So can I give you the muscular strength and ability to build muscle that you had 20 years ago?
-
Unknown B
Can I give you the immune strength, the ability to mount an immune reaction to influenza or cancer that you had 20 years ago? Can I give you the cognitive clarity, the scope of memory that you had 20 years ago? And we have 505 teams.
-
Unknown A
Jesus.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. That have entered in the first year, which blows me away. I mean, I expect to get to 500 teams by 2030. And I've seen a number of these and they're amazing.
-
Unknown A
Are there any patterns in the mechanism of action?
-
Unknown B
No, it's all, it's all over the place.
-
Unknown A
Interesting.
-
Unknown B
And so this is sort of, you know, one of the beautiful things about an X prize is you're not preguessing the winner and you're seeing every possible approach. And so we're going to out of the noise or out of the universe of companies, entrepreneurs out there. They're, they're small and big companies throughout 30 countries around the world, we're going to find those companies that are making the most advanced, bold breakthroughs in this.
-
Unknown A
Now, is there anything that you see? I fully understand that not only do you not want to nudge people down a certain path, but you know better than to guess. But is there any approach that you See, that either hits you as intuitively fruitful or just outright sexy and kind of intriguing.
-
Unknown B
Oh. I mean, there's. There's a multitude. So there are a number of epigenetic companies.
-
Unknown A
So people looking at the thing I was talking about.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. So how do we reverse your epigenome? How do we reset the markers in your DNA so that you're expressing the genes that you had 20 years younger? Okay. There are a number of companies in the stem cell world. All right, so your stem cells in your body when you are born, you have something like a hundred or a thousand times more stem cells than you and I have. Whoa. You know, per unit mass in our body.
-
Unknown A
Whoa. I had no idea the decline was.
-
Unknown B
It declines very much. And can you rejuvenate your stem cell population? One company that I've seen that I'm just blown away by, a guy named Hans Kiersted and his work at company called Immunis, has been able to look at the. A specific young stem cell. Think of it as a embryonic stem cell. But it's, it's, you know, early, you know, few days after fertilization, it's putting out 440 growth factors. These are, these are MRNA's, they're exosomes. There are all kinds of factors that are youthful factors. And the FDA has allowed him to characterize those 440 factors as a drug. And he's gone through a phase one and phase two, a trial. He had 18 patients who were basically confined to a wheelchair or bed because they had severe osteoarthritis, they couldn't walk. Giving them this drug he calls immuna, even though they were constrained, they increased their muscle mass by 6%.
-
Unknown A
What?
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
I mean, from an injection.
-
Unknown B
An injection over the course of three months, this is stimulating growth in the body. Listen, I work out in the gym as you do on almost every day. I know you're skeptical. I looked at the data. Here's the rest of it. Reduced pain by as much as 70% from your osteoarthritis. Reduced whole body inflammation by 50%. Reversed their immune age by 30 years.
-
Unknown A
This is called immuna.
-
Unknown B
Immuna. So we're going to be providing that at no additional cost. They've expanded the trial, and Fountain Life is going to be offering this to its members at no additional cost to be part of that trial in the phase two open trial. I'm literally going down there next month to start. Start getting access to.
-
Unknown A
Dude, you have got to keep me updated on that. So for anybody listening Here. The reason that I'm reacting so big is the joke in bodybuilding circles forever has been, oh, people try to say, oh, this guy did drugs. And so, you know, it's all worthless. And you can inject somebody with steroids all day long and they will never get bigger. You have to go work your ass off. And if you don't work your ass off, no matter how many steroids I give you, you're not going to get any bigger. And so to have something where you don't need to work out to get the gain in muscle is insane. It is like, that's an insane.
-
Unknown B
I am, fingers crossed. I mean, I work out five days a week at least. You know, I added 10 pounds of muscle mass last year and it was a lot of work, right? It was 150 grams of protein, it was creatine, it was working out in the gym. It was like, damn it, I'm gonna get there, whatever now.
-
Unknown A
Did you do trt?
-
Unknown B
I did a little bit, but I've actually stopped because my, my test, my testosterone levels were, were high enough already. High. And look at you. Anyway, so, but bottom line, I know that you know, and I've got an entire chapter in Longevity guidebook on the importance of muscle, right? And, and you know this, it's your longevity organ. And having there's a direct correlation between your muscle mass and your lifespan and it's critically important.
-
Unknown A
Okay, that's bananas.
-
Unknown B
So it's one example another company I ran into will go from. It will take one of your skin cells, right? Convert it to an IPSC cell. So basically an induced pluripotent stem cell. These are the Yamanaka factors. Nobel Prize was granted to Shinhua Yamanaka for this discovery that you can take a differentiated cell, typically a skin cell, and turn it back into a pluripotent stem cell. That can then become any other kind of cell. You can take a skin cell, turn it back to a pluripotent stem cell, have it then become a neuron or liver cell or lung cell. So what this team is doing is going from a skin cell to a pluripotent stem cell and then actually growing a clone of you.
-
Unknown A
Say more.
-
Unknown B
Yes. And so imagine they've gotten this clone up to something like 28 weeks. And that's legal? It's legal. And the idea is that I can then from that, I mean, it's a pea sized clone, right? But I can then extract my own DNA, my own stem cells from that clone and I can use that for regenerative Purposes.
-
Unknown A
When we say clone, do we just mean, like clumps of cells that are cloned cells? Embryo.
-
Unknown B
Talking about effectively an embryo.
-
Unknown A
Uh huh.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Of you.
-
Unknown A
But wait, how is this legal?
-
Unknown B
Why is it not legal?
-
Unknown A
There were. I mean, back in the 90s, this was like a huge thing to not let people. I don't know if it was around cloning, but not let.
-
Unknown B
It was. It was. So back then, the notion was if someone was having an abortion.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
And you had an embryo of a third party. Could I take the stem cells from that embryo.
-
Unknown A
Yes.
-
Unknown B
And utilize them in my body. And that was led to teratomas and a whole bunch of different cancers and a whole bunch of problems. Not done and probably not legal. This is very different than your own cells. This work's going on right now outside the U.S. but the idea being that I'm simply using my own DNA to create and I'm using biology to create the cells out of my own DNA that I'm going to want to use to support this body.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. This is incredible. It's also insane.
-
Unknown B
My point is, there's a lot of incredible work being done right now across the board. And putting aside whether you think yuck.
-
Unknown A
Or wow, I'm more in the wow camp. But that is shocking. I did not realize that that A, was possible and B, that it was. I love it. Okay, so those are some absolutely jaw droppingly cool approaches.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. So I think one of the reasons that I wrote Longevity Guidebook was to give people the power to understand what was possible and give them the definitive, you know, executable plan. And there are a number of things that people can do right now that cost zero. Right. So it really is. The fundamentals still apply. And you know this, and I'm sure you and Lisa focus on this. It is, it's, you know, what do you do in your diet? What do you do with sleep? What do you do with exercise? What do you do with mindset? Right. Those are the fundamental elements that are going to buy you the additional health span. And then.
-
Unknown A
But people want. They want the Ozempics.
-
Unknown B
They do.
-
Unknown A
And it's.
-
Unknown B
And honestly, Ozempic has its downsides and we can talk through that.
-
Unknown A
Well, what I want to ask is, can we agree that something just happened in the last six months that made facelifts, cosmetic surgery, whatever you want to call it, way better. Like, am I being trolled better? Have you seen the Lindsay Lohan before and after?
-
Unknown B
I did not.
-
Unknown A
This is nuts. Drew, you got to pull this up. This is legitimately Where I'm like, are they using filters? And I'm just being trolled. It is. It is shocking. And this was not the first one that I've seen where I'm just like, how's this possible? This was somebody that. Whatever, a year. Look, dude, the one, okay, she had had a ton of work done on the left already. And then all of a sudden, okay, so left work done. Clearly already work being done on the left and then the right is the. After what is happening? So this is. I need to know if this is real. This feels like somebody from your program escaped and was like, I'm going to commercialize this real fast and there's nanobots under her skin or something. This. This is insane to me. And I need to know what's going on, because I want to be first in fucking line for this.
-
Unknown A
This is crazy.
-
Unknown B
I think, listen, plastics are real and they're getting better and we're learning how to deal with all kinds of.
-
Unknown A
But even you, dude, you're 63, you're looking really good.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I don't do that. I have a. I use a one skin face cream that is. Was developed by four incredible women with PhDs in. In. In senolytic medicine. So it's a. This particular face cream has an amino acid. 10. 10Amino acid peptide that is able to identify and kill senescent cells in your skin.
-
Unknown A
Yep.
-
Unknown B
And I don't eat sugar and I heal plants. And I do my damnedest to get.
-
Unknown A
You heal plants.
-
Unknown B
I eat whole plants.
-
Unknown A
There we go. That makes a lot more sense. I was imagining you like. Exactly.
-
Unknown B
And I work out energy and I'm, you know. And one of the things that people don't realize, and I'm sure you do, but the benefits of mindset is so powerful. Can I just read something from, from the, from the book, which is. I just want to get this out into the world here because people need to understand this. And so it's quote from my. From my book here. It says, in a study of 69,744 women and 1429 men. Right. More women, but well powered study in terms of number of people. It was published in the prestigious journal Proceedings in the National Academy of Sciences. As high as you get. It was found that optimistic people live as much as 15% longer than pessimists. And it really is mind over body in an extraordinary fashion. It's a double payoff if you're an optimist. There's another little passage I want to read here in the.
-
Unknown B
In the mindset chapter. And I love this. And a friend of mine, Dan Sullivan, says you need to have a mindset where your future is bigger than your past. Right? And it's like, great line. It really, truly is. If you have a lot to look forward to, if you're excited about the future. And I'm like, like, this is the most amazing time ever to be alive. I want to see as much of it as possible. I want to start a city on the moon. I want to mine asteroids. I want to upload myself. You know, I've got a lot to do in the next 100 years. I want to see as much of it as I can.
-
Unknown A
That implies that you're going to make it to 163.
-
Unknown B
We'll see. There's. Let me read this says my favorite story illustrating the power of mind over body comes from the annals of American history. As it turns out, in an extraordinary demonstration of the will to live, two of America's founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, both willed themselves to live long enough to see the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Even though the average age, average life expectancy was only 44 years old in the early 1800s, Jefferson, who was 83, and Adams, who was 90, made it to July 4th of 1826, both dying on the exact date of the 50th anniversary of the nation.
-
Unknown A
That's nuts.
-
Unknown B
Having something to look forward to.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, having something to look forward to. Understanding the power of the mind. I think that's all amazing. And I love about you that even in the face of the technological singularity, you're still focused on the things that we can do right here and right now. However, the thing that makes you a central figure in this moment is that you actually understand the technology and where this stuff is going. So, one I would love an anchor around. Why is 2025 going to be the greatest year so far? And then I know that as you look beyond that, you see only hope and optimism. But first, give me why will 2025 be the greatest year ever?
-
Unknown B
We are on the tipping point of AGI. We are about to release the ability to build AI agents that will do your bidding, do your research, support every aspect of your life. We are clearly, from what we just heard from Hartmut Nevin at Google, also on the verge of quantum computing becoming stable and effective. All these things are happening concurrently. We have more information about biology than ever, and all of this is feeding in. So, as you know, I. I'm currently chairman of Fountain Life, and we have These large diagnostic centers. And so we've built AI into everything. So when you go through this, and I still want you and Lisa to come through, same man as my guest.
-
Unknown A
You've got something coming in la.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, we are opening up la, and we have right now New York, our headquarters in Orlando, Naples and Dallas. We're opening up this coming year in Century City at the Fairmont Hotel, beautiful facility there. Opening up Houston, the Ritz Carlton in Phoenix, and then probably Miami. And then we have a path of an additional 25 centers that we're building around the world. So it's. And we have built a large functional medicine AI model in which helps our physicians gather all. See, it's like 300 gigabytes, 200 gigabytes of data about you, right? So mass, amount of imaging, genomics, everything is. We upload you, right? It's like we. Everything knowable about your biology is knowable. And there's no way human can understand that, but the AI systems and the humans together can. And then on your phone, I'll. I'll show you this after. After we record all my data and an AI there that I can query by voice and say, based upon my imagery and my blood tests, what supplements should I be on?
-
Unknown B
It's crazy. All of these things are converging and they're all empowering us to do that much more. We're in this very rapid, exponential.
-
Unknown A
Walk me through. What does life after artificial intelligence, all the way to AGI has been integrated. What does life look like?
-
Unknown B
So I had Elon on my stage last year at the Abundance Summit, and his prediction was, okay, we're going to have AGI by the end of 2025. And Ray Kurzweil's original prediction for artificial General Intelligence was 2029, but directionally correct. And there's no real definition of what AGI is anyway. It's a blurry, fuzzy line, to be clear. That'd be true. We passed the Turing test and didn't notice it. It's crazy, right?
-
Unknown A
Well, that's when people started writing that letter. We need to slow this down.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, well, but there was still no, like, checkbox, you know, AGI, I think we're effectively there now, or we will be in 2020. Really? Listen, I. When I'm using all of the AI agents, I use a multitude of them. There is really nothing it can do that it can't do better than me. And so what do you define that as? Anyway? So Elon said. I said, okay, so where is this going? He said, well, by 2029 at the earliest, 2030 at the latest, we're going to have digital superintelligence where AI is more intelligent than the entire human race put together.
-
Unknown A
What. What does that mean? That it's the smartest human multiplied out or.
-
Unknown B
It's a level of intelligence that we can't conceive of. So a year ago, we saw. We saw Claude. Claude 3 get to an IQ of 101, which by definition is superhuman or above average at least. Right? We saw GPT01 from OpenAI have an IQ of 120 as measured. Whoa, that's. That's old news. That's four months old. Really?
-
Unknown A
I didn't hear about that.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. And we're about to see.
-
Unknown A
Dude, that's nuts.
-
Unknown B
It is nuts. But we'll blow through 150 and beyond. You know we have Elon's just built Colossus, right? He went from raising $8 billion, snapping his fingers and saying, I'm raising for Xai. And you know, I was on. I was one of the first investment calls. I got to invest early on.
-
Unknown A
Congratulations.
-
Unknown B
And money comes in. He raised again. And I'm like, can I get in? Sorry, it's over. Subscribed already. He's like, holy shit. Right? It's like instantly. But beyond that, once he raised the money, he went from a clean facility in Memphis to building the largest cluster of 100,000 H1 H1 hundreds in 122 days. And now he's driving it to 200,000 and then to a million to build out. Grok and Elon will never play for second place. Having said that, we're entering a period where we are going to have a digital superintelligence. The question is, will it be humanity's savior, our. Our support structure, or our foe? I. I believe that it will be that I'd rather live in a world with a benevolent digital superintelligence where it's keeping us from destroying ourselves. Right? Because I'm not concerned about artificial intelligence. I'm concerned about human stupidity for the most part.
-
Unknown B
And I think people don't realize how insanely fast we're moving. I've got this one PowerPoint slide that I use in my keynotes. And it says at the top, our ancestors would view us as gods.
-
Unknown A
It's interesting, right?
-
Unknown B
We are godlike today. We're omniscient. We're omnipotent, omnipresent. We can create life.
-
Unknown A
It's pretty incredible.
-
Unknown B
It's pretty incredible.
-
Unknown A
Okay, talk to me like a sci FI author though, what is it going to look like? Is there going to be blood in the streets?
-
Unknown B
Jarvis. Jarvis. It's Jarvis all the way down. I think what we saw in Ironman is there. You're going to have an intelligent AI agent that you let into your life fully. It reads your emails, listen to your phone calls, sees what you're eating and you set your objectives of what you want. I want to be healthier, I want to make more friends, I want to be more productive and it will support you in any way, shape or form that you need. You get up and you are walking towards the front door from a breakfast meeting and your AI has an autonomous car waiting for you. You never called it. It knows your schedule, it knows that you have a meeting where you're going to and the car is there. It knows you didn't get good sleep last night because your oura ring told you you had a shitty sleep score.
-
Unknown B
And it's got a autonomous car with a lie down bed in the back for you. Its world is automatic and magical in that regard. Now the big question. I just came back, I was in Stanford last week or 10 days ago, giving a keynote and exploring the question of do we humans need a challenging life to thrive and exist? What's it like when everything. I mean, we haven't talked about humanoid robots, right, which I'm invested in heavily. And I've got three of the humanoid robot companies coming at the Abundance Summit this year. There's like 50 humanoid robot companies out there, well funded and growing. I just did a report on the top 16 of them and the prediction is that these humanoid robots, powered by AI, right, they're multimodal. Their eyes allow them to see and know what they're seeing. They can speak to you, you speak to them.
-
Unknown B
They're running GPT5 or, or Grok3 or whatever the equivalent is, and they're cheap and there are billions of them. So by 2040, the prediction is 10 billion humanoid robots, more than there are humans on the planet.
-
Unknown A
That's in the next 10 years, about 10, 15 years.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So what date did you get?
-
Unknown B
So 2040.
-
Unknown A
2040.
-
Unknown B
So that's Brett Adcock, who's the CEO of Figure AI and Elon's prediction. I was with him in Riyadh interviewing him and asked him how many humanoid robots by 2040, he goes, that is.
-
Unknown A
An insane change in 15 years. It is insane.
-
Unknown B
And guess what? When, you know, I asked a friend of mine, what's it going to feel like when they're humanoid robots? Walking around outside and in your place of work. He said normal. Yeah, we're going to, we adopt really fast. I mean, you know, we have way Mo's running around. @ first you're like photographing them and like, wow. And then like, please get out of my way, you know, ignoring them. But here's the real insane point. So the price point. You can predict the price of these things on a per kg basis. And so the price point is between 20,000 and 30,000 to buy one of these robots today, or that's the prediction in, in. No, in a couple years. Next. Next two years to lease one of these robots like a car. Think of it as same leasing structure. 300 bucks a month, that's $10 a day.
-
Unknown B
That's 40 cents an hour for a humanoid robot that has expertise and whatever. You please go fix the plumbing or please go and help my kid debug his whatever, or can you get the AV system working, please, for me? I mean, it downloads the specs and goes and does the tinkering and it's there and it's 24 7. No boyfriend or girlfriend fights, no drug testing, no vacation days. 40 cents an hour. 40 cents an hour.
-
Unknown A
Insane. Is my kid's best friend a robot?
-
Unknown B
I think we're going to give these Personas. I think we're going to, you know, if you saw the movie Bicentennial Man, I think we're going to become, I think we're going to connect with them. You know, we've already seen a lot of AI agents. Like, I say please and thank you to Alexa in the morning.
-
Unknown A
Smart.
-
Unknown B
Right? I'm going to, I'm going to get those points early on. That is a good bet the system becomes overly capable. You know, when I'm speaking to my OpenAI GPT01 model, you know, it's like saying, good morning. You know, I use them, the one called Ember. I said, good morning, Ember. How are you doing? Listen, I have a question for you today. And I just enter a natural dialogue. And so they are very human, like in their personality. And I think once we get the latency down a little bit, they'll become funny too. The only thing that keeps them from being a little bit funnier and more interactive is a little bit of latency. And we'll get rid of that. So enter a world with super capable AI and humanoid robotics around us. And so the question becomes, this is what I coming back to my Stanford lecture was we need challenge in our lives.
-
Unknown B
We need to work for what we accomplish and if it's just given to us, will how will we feel? So one of the things is like what happens when we have this much automagical and we even have a BCI implant and we think it and it happens. What's life like then? Do we create artificial, you know, boundary conditions and challenges? Do we all revert into a video game universe? And which is I, I think we do and I think we're living in a simulation. I have no question we're living in a simulation going back to that. In fact, we're not even living just in a simulation. We're living in an Nth generation simulation. We're in a simulation within simulation, within simulation simulation. Because we're doing that now. We're creating virtual worlds with AI agents in them that don't know their agents in a simulation. So I think we need challenges to thrive.
-
Unknown B
I think we, you know, our neurochemistry, our dopamine hits happen when we work hard and we accomplish something. What do you think about that?
-
Unknown A
Well, so I think that is for sure, that is a, the primary driver for me building a video game now is that I don't think of them as a game. I think of them as a virtual world. I, a way station on the way to what I'm trying to build is a typical video game. But very much so I think the reason the Fermi paradox exists is that yes, any advanced civilization just collapses inside. Yeah. They don't, they don't end up going out.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So that to me is huge. I think that the big thing that people don't see coming is that not only will your child's best friend be an AI, I think people are going to raise AI instead of kids. Not everybody obviously. And I see the dangers of it, but I also see that it is going to happen. So even if it starts as I'm raising an AI as a pet, there's just something about it. So when I, cause obviously I made the decision not to have kids, but I'm super tempted to have a proximity experience of raising a child, let's say over a three year period and being like you rush through the parts that suck, you slow down at the parts that you really enjoy. Because to your point, I need that investment. Right. If it's just sort of an insta child and I didn't do anything to earn that relationship, it won't feel as good.
-
Unknown A
But even right now I'm establishing unintentionally, but I'm establishing a relationship with ChatGPT because I'm giving it context all the time. And now its ability to remember the context. Infinite context, seen and understood.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
It is crazy. So over the weekend I was in New York with my wife and she was asking me some question. I was like, oh, just ask Chad GPT. She's like, what do you mean? And I was like, hold on. You don't realize you can give it a bunch of context. It will know who you are. It will know who I am and then you can prompt it. She's like, really? I was like, pull it out right now and give it your name and say, do you know who I am? And because she has a public Persona, it was like, yes, I know who you are. And you're known for this, that and the other. And she looks at me and she's like, I feel so seen. And I was like, okay, now wait, over the next month or whatever, you're going to start giving it all this information.
-
Unknown A
It's going to remember it, it's going to begin to mirror back to you the words that you use, the way you talk, your cadence, all that stuff. And so all of a sudden you're just going to have this affinity for it and you won't even understand why.
-
Unknown B
So I have two 13 year old boys, fraternal twins, and I am a little bit worried about the whole AI girlfriend thing. Yes, right. You know, by the way, you could also have a Tom and Lisa clone if you want.
-
Unknown A
Of course, if there are people out there that. So I will do this a lot. Like all if I'm trying to solve a problem, I will treat public people as AI and so I might go in and be like, okay, but what would Peter Diamandis say about this?
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Um, so that to me is utterly fascinating that somebody out there could already step inside of the amount that AI in the public knows about me and say, what would Tom say to this? It. It will get distressingly close.
-
Unknown B
It will. And the other magic trick that you should think about is, you know, I want to convince Tom to do something. What would be the best strategy for me to approach him on this subject?
-
Unknown A
Yes.
-
Unknown B
Right. So it's translational and persuasional at an extraordinary level. I did something the other day just as a interesting experiment where I was like, okay, if, you know, I'm about to go into the Palestinian, Israeli peace talks and I want you to guide me through the best strategy I should take. Fascinating answers.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
Right. So I think we're going to see negotiators in this regard. We've already seen AI in The medical space become much more trusted than a physician, much more empathic than a physician. You know, it's interesting in the JAMA article, I forget the exact number, but patients rated AIs much, much better than human doctors. And for two reasons. Right. Number one, they're not rushed. They have all the time in the world for you. Sure, keep going. I've got all day. All you want. And the second is you don't feel judged talking to them.
-
Unknown A
Have you heard about AI Jesus?
-
Unknown B
Not yet, but tell me about our Lord.
-
Unknown A
They put him in a confessional. People knew it was AI Jesus and they were like all for it. More and more people wanted to come and interact with it. And for the reasons you just said, that to me is self evident. And so I think that the reason people are pushing back right now is because they, there's two reasons. One, they haven't done it, so they don't realize how good it feels.
-
Unknown B
How powerful.
-
Unknown A
Oh my God, how powerful that you can literally nudge it and get it to be your own personal Jesus in that it's like, well, could you give me that? But in a parable, could you give me that? But as it relates to the ten Commandments, could you give me that? But like, talk to me like, what advice did Mary give you? Right, so. And it will do all of it, man. And so, and not only will it do it, it will do it well. And so already, like, here's the, the to your point earlier about we're blowing past these markers and nobody's saying anything. So I want to plant a flag right now because I keep hearing people say, well, AI is not really ready for prime time. And this, that or the other are. And I agree there's a lot of places that it's, it's not there yet, but it, it is there in terms of.
-
Unknown A
I now feel like I permanently have a PhD level thinker who has access to every thought that has ever been put on the Internet and can synthesize it effectively instantly to give me a take on any idea.
-
Unknown B
So why is that not AGI, dude.
-
Unknown A
So I'll give you reasons why it's not AGI, but the reason that I want people to realize that moment is here is most people aren't doing it.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So I'm, I'm going to guess that over the next 365 days, I will use AI at least 300 of those days. And as we go it, it just may work its way to 365. And I use it from everything to what should I ask Peter when I have him on the show to what's a great headline for this? To I'm teaching a class on this business principle. And today I literally asked it. I said, I'm going to be teaching this thing. I knew that I had somebody was going to be asking a really complicated question and I wanted to give them a really pithy answer. And so first you just say, what would Tom bill you say? And because it knows me, it'll give an answer. And then you go, but how would Mark Twain say that? How would you know, whoever your favorite thinker is, say that?
-
Unknown A
It is absolutely fascinating. So people should be using it because there's going to be an 18 month window where the person who's using it is really going to be able to outcompete the people that are stubborn or slow to adopt or just think they're too busy or whatever.
-
Unknown B
Let me add one, one thing which is people are fearful. I don't know. I don't understand it. I don't know. I don't understand what AI is. AI is your best friend and the most infinitely patient teacher. If you open up Gemini or ChatGPT or XAI, whatever it might be, a grok and say, listen, I'm starting from zero. I want to learn about AI can you please explain to me like I'm five And then start a conversation and when it says something you understand, just say, what is that? And just go down the rabbit hole. And I do this to, to wrap my head around any subject between YouTube and chatbots, every PhD on the planet is within your, within your reach. So why don't you call that AGI?
-
Unknown A
Okay, so it's the G. So Artificial General Intelligence. I'll give you a great example. For people that don't know you. They should be asking one question. If, if they look you up, they're going to see one, you know, the biggest players in the world, from Elon Musk to all the major players across every area of technology, health, longevity, it is legitimately nuts. And so it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're smart, fine. But like, how do you know all these people? Now? You did what I'll call the Michael Strahan effect. Michael Strahan is, see, the only celebrity he. It's close enough that I'll say, Michael Strand's the only celebrity that when I met him, I was like, oh, I get why you're famous. And you have that same ability. You will break the normal. Like you, you're very warm, kind, you'll Hug, you know how to like cross a line, but in a way that people love.
-
Unknown A
By putting your arm around them. Like, there's, there's a thing that you do that makes me feel the way I want to feel, that it would not be able to pull off.
-
Unknown B
Are you doing this for my mom's benefit, by the way?
-
Unknown A
Your mom will immediately recognize that it's all true. It, it is. There's a really fascinating thing that some humans can do still that I don't think it can do yet. And you can do that, but you can also drive. You can do that, but you can also raise your kids. So there, there is a level of flexibility to your intelligence that I don't think it has yet. That when it is able to do all of those different things and bounce back and forth, then I'd be like, okay, this is AGI. And so if I had to put words to it, for sure, the one part that it's missing is it is not embodied. And I don't think we can call it general until it's embodied. Meaning that I could say one of my smoke detectors is beeping. I don't know which one. Will you please find it, replace the battery and all that?
-
Unknown A
And if I can give it that instruction and it can go do it, then I'll be like, yo, fuck, it's really here.
-
Unknown B
All right, well then humanoid robots will, will help us.
-
Unknown A
And I think we are freakishly close.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
But I don't want people to lose sight of the thing you have now. Everybody has access, almost everybody. Which brings a follow up question in a second. But almost everybody has access to an eternally patient, eternally present PhD student with knowledge of all of human history. It's pure insanity.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So now.
-
Unknown B
And we take it for granted.
-
Unknown A
Correct?
-
Unknown B
I mean, it's crazy that the most powerful technology in the world, generative AI, is effectively free.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
I mean, if I'd gotten back a decade, two decades, and said, hey Tom, guess what? We're gonna have this kind of capability, we're gonna offer a subscription basis, what do you think it's gonna cost people?
-
Unknown A
Oh, yeah.
-
Unknown B
Zero or 20 bucks is the last answer you'd expect per month.
-
Unknown A
No joke. So we asked the community what we should ask you. And one of the most piercing questions was, is this all just gonna be for rich people?
-
Unknown B
Ah. So the answer is definitively no. And let me break it down. When you say all of this, you.
-
Unknown A
Mean the longevity piece, the access to AI.
-
Unknown B
So let's, let's go, let's go through that, because it's really important. I want people to feel empowered and inspired about what's coming. So. And I'll, you know, I wrote the book in particular to give people access to the knowledge. And that's why, you know, I'm basically trying to get it out as far and wide as possible. Diet costs you nothing. It is making the mental decision that this is who I am and this is what I eat. Sugar is the number one killer on the planet. It is a neuroinflammatory, a cardiac inflammatory. We looked at the first 5,000 members in Fountain life and we said, what's the highest correlated with heart disease? Is it hdl, ldl, triglycerides, lp, all those things that you get in your blood tests, and we found it was hemoglobin A1C. It was your average blood glucose level. The higher that is, the more likely you are to have cardiac disease.
-
Unknown B
Same thing for brain health, same thing obviously for metabolic health. So minimizing sugar, super important, maximizing the eating of whole plants. Let me give a few tips for folks right here, right now. Number one, when you sit down tonight at dinner, drink a full glass of water first. Number two, take a deep breath in and let it out. It puts you in parasympathetic mode, which is the rest and digest mode. If you've got a plate of food in front of you, eat your vegetables first. It's the fiber. It slows down your digestion, allows you to absorb the food. After your veggies eat your protein, and then if you have time or room, eat the carbs last. Just doing that small change will change your biology.
-
Unknown A
That's great advice, but the people at home want to know, are you the rich guy, going to have all the nanobots while I'm taking deep breaths and eating vegetables?
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Okay. Oh. So the epigenetic reprogramming that we talked about earlier, which may be the most likely leader to reverse your aging process, it's a gene therapy. And today, some of the gene therapies out there are expensive. They can be half a million dollars, a million dollars, two million dollars. And that gives people a lot of fear. And it's that much because they're gene therapies for very small populations and narrow diseases. But there's an example of a gene therapy that was manufactured for billions of people, and that was the MRNA vaccines. RNA is a nucleic acid. It used a lipid nanoparticle to enter the cells. Putting aside any anti vaxxers concerns, whatever it was a gene therapy and it was manufactured for like a dollar a dose. And so we have a proof of existence for being able to provide gene therapies, which are the types of therapies for epigenetic reprogramming for extraordinarily cheap cost if manufactured en masse.
-
Unknown B
And guess what? We all have the same disease called aging. Right? So anything we manufacture for somebody in Manhattan is going to work in Mumbai and Mozambique. We have effectively the same biology for 8 billion people. And so I think it's going to very rapidly demonetize in the same exact way that we saw the most powerful AI technology in the world, generative AI, become available to anyone with a smartphone. And there are 7 billion smartphones on the planet today.
-
Unknown A
Jesus.
-
Unknown B
So I don't think this becomes. You know, listen, there's another. There's another point I should make. In the early days, the first few years. Yeah, the billionaires are taking the risks and they're experimenting on themselves. Right. But very quickly, once it works well, it becomes cheap and accessible and ever available to everybody. The first smartphones cost tens of thousands of dollars, and they dropped a call on every other block in Manhattan. And today, when they cost 40 bucks and they work incredibly well, kids and favelas have them. That's. That's repeated over and over and over again. So I. I don't. I think this is going to be accessible to every single human on the planet.
-
Unknown A
All right, so tell me what you think about this.
-
Unknown B
Do you agree with that?
-
Unknown A
Aggressively. I think there's one thing that either I'm just delusional about or that you've left out that may end up being the most important part of this, which is I think that what AI is going to help us do is drive energy costs to effectively zero.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
And so once you understand the amount of energy the sun is kicking off.
-
Unknown B
That we have more a thousand times than we use, it's crazy. That hits the surface of the Earth. There's trillions of times more that miss the Earth.
-
Unknown A
Right. So once you understand that, it's like, okay, the energy is there. We just don't know how to capture it. We'll get back to the show in a moment, but first, I have an important message for entrepreneurs. You did not start your business to play small. You start started it to build something extraordinary. But here's the truth. Big visions require big tools. That's why I recommend Shopify to every entrepreneur who's serious about building a business. It's not just a sales platform, it's a partner in your growth. Shopify powers some of the biggest brands out there, like Alo, Allbirds and Skims. It's the backbone that lets them sell seamlessly, whether it's online or in store or even on social media. With features like Shop Pay, they boost conversions by up to 50%, turning browsers into buyers and dreams into real hard revenue. Upgrade your business today.
-
Unknown A
Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.comimpact all lowercase again go to shopify.comimpact to upgrade your selling to today. That's shopify.comimpact and now let's get back to the show. If AI is going to be so good that it can deal with the complexities of the human body, which is way more complex than capturing energy, then it's like, okay, I think we're going to get to the point where energy cost just effectively goes to zero. And then I don't think people realize that basically the thing that drives cost up is energy. And so if energy costs are zero, then the cost of most material goods is going to race towards zero. Not exactly zero, but man, will it be close.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So now all of a sudden you usher in the world that you've been screaming about since 2012, which is a true age of abundance, where it's like the problem is going to be how do you love your life because you're everyone. The poorest person in the world is like every rich kid now, where it's like you just have everything and so your problem becomes a psychological problem of like, I didn't earn any of this and therefore don't feel good about it. And there are some weird self destruct mechanisms that will kick in. I have a reason why I think that happens, but. So it really will become a game of managing human psychology, not access to longer life.
-
Unknown B
Guess what? The best psychologist out there will be A.I.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, just bananas. What? What a crazy time.
-
Unknown B
Holy.
-
Unknown A
So, given how crazy it is.
-
Unknown B
Yes.
-
Unknown A
Let me ask you, how do you feel about this new administration who is using a lot of your besties to really steer towards something?
-
Unknown B
I'm excited. I think this is going to be the roaring twenties. I think it's going to be the most extraordinary acceleration we've ever seen in the U.S. i'm actually, I was fearful and now I'm, I'm thrilled.
-
Unknown A
What took you from fearful to thrilled?
-
Unknown B
Elon. Elon's role in it. I mean, first and foremost as a stabilizing factor and is creating clarity in a vision and then the incredible people that are being pulled in. So here's Something that just blows me away because I was just in San Francisco meeting with a number of these individuals who have been CEOs of major companies that you could have never, ever paid enough to enter the government. It's like, you know, I got a call years ago to enter, you know, would you be interested in the role of NASA administrator? And I was like, I'd rather shoot myself. And, and the reality is that what we've had is either people in government who, that's their power trip, they, that's their relevance play, but they're, they don't, they haven't had the, you know, the, the leadership qualities and experiences to do something incredible on a world stage, or the social capabilities.
-
Unknown B
And now I see friends of mine who are like, yep, I'm going to go in and spend, commit six months on the Doge effort and help right the ship. And it's like, you could never afford those people. Never convince them. And they're all jumping in. You know, it's interesting, a lot of these people, no matter what you think about them, they're super smart and they know how to succeed. And what we're talking about is the success of the US government on the planet at a time when AI is skyrocketing, when crypto and bitcoin is blowing through the roof. I had three hour dinner and hangout with Michael Saylor last week talking about this and man, oh man, is he convincing. He and I were fraternity brothers in MIT and roommates working together. Yeah, it was fun and it's, it is extraordinary. And then the whole deregulation thing is a real thing, like in the biotechnology world.
-
Unknown B
So one of the technologies that's super exciting in longevity space is stem cells, peptides, a whole bunch of these things. And the government regulations have been crushing and people need to leave the US to go elsewhere to get access. And it's like, hold it, this is my body, right? I want to try these technologies on my body. How can you tell me I can't do this? Facts, right? And it's like overreaching and it's like, you know, there should be, you know, there is a equivalent of a, you know, if you go public with a company of enough lawyers and accountants that say, grandmother can invest in this public company. But before you have a, not a registered investor, a what's a credit accredited investor, right? Where you say, okay, this guy or gal is smart enough, they have enough money that if they're stupid and they make the investment and they lose it, that's okay, right?
-
Unknown B
I think we should have like an accredited patient program where if I, you know, somebody's convinced me to try their medicine, their stem cells, their drugs, whatever, if I have my husband or wife or kids or doctors sign off on it, that I'm of sound mind, why would you tell me I can't do it? Right? So I think we're going to have some interesting changes in regulations too.
-
Unknown A
So talk to me about the regulations. Do you think that I should be regulated? How should we be approaching some of these technologies? I don't think it can be regulated really at all.
-
Unknown B
I don't know. I mean, we can regulate on the sales of chips, right? Are we going to regulate the software being developed if it becomes far more efficient? The question is, you know, we're entering as we hit GPT5 and we have super PhD level AI models that begin to self referentially improve their own algorithms and get better and better and better and become a digital superintelligence. How do you regulate against that? Do you like have to get approval for every experiment that's being done? What's interesting is I used to think this was going to be a competition between governments, like the US versus China versus I'm not sure who else but and now I'm clear. It's a competition between companies. It is. We're going to have the dominant, right? We're going to have Microsoft and Xai and Google and OpenAI and Facebook and, you know, a few others.
-
Unknown A
Now did you hear Andreessen on Rogan?
-
Unknown B
I heard clips. I didn't hear the whole show.
-
Unknown A
Oh my God. It is a must watch. It should be taught in civics classes. I'm not kidding, not in the slightest.
-
Unknown B
On my watch list. Next.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, yeah. Did you. So the part that I want to talk to you about is he was saying the Biden administration was going for total control of AI and that they told him point blank to his face, don't even start a new AI company. No way we're going to let that happen. It's going to be a small number of people. And that's the part they said out loud. The implication is that they're going to use regulatory capture to ensure that it's just a small number of companies that can get in so that they can have influence and control over that. That, that was so damning to me.
-
Unknown B
I don't know how they could do it. And it's ridiculous.
-
Unknown A
Why is it ridiculous? Why is that a bad strategy?
-
Unknown B
Because whenever we've tried to control things like this before, I guess nukes are a reasonable example of when we have. One of the best examples of how to do this correctly was. I remember I was at MIT in my graduate degree. I was doing research in recombinant DNA and their first restriction enzymes had come out where, you know, the COVID of Time magazine was Hitler Gene edited babies. You know, it was like a lot of fear about gene editing. And the big conversation was, should we regulate this stuff? And what happened was that the engine, the industry got together at something called the Asilomar conferences and they pulled together and they created their own regulations, they created their own guidance. And I think you can steer and influence. There's no on off switch on this technology, there's no velocity knob on this technology. And so if you try and regulate, what that means is the bad actors are the ones who are doing most of the breakthrough work versus the ones that you, you know, that you have access to.
-
Unknown B
You want the leaders in the industry to lead and to have a vision to shoot for.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, I, having lived through the food industry, I come at it from the perspective of government, almost by definition is dumb. And if you take any approach where you think that, oh, we know best and we can do this top down, you get the food pyramid. So whether that comes from corruption or ignorance or both, I literally don't give a fuck. But it's like we've run the experiment, we see how ridiculous this is. When you carry it to its extreme, it is absolutely spastic. You get Mao's China, you get Stalin and Lenin's Russia. It's absurd in the extreme. And so I don't know if people just reject Thomas Sowell's idea that there are no solutions, there's only trade offs or I don't know. But I cannot believe that people look at the actual real human history and go, you know what's going to work here? Top down control. Yeah, it literally baffles my mind.
-
Unknown B
I agree. And having said all that, this is the most exciting four years that I think I've ever been alive during.
-
Unknown A
But I'll say it, the reason I think it's exciting is you have people finally going, you know what, maybe transparency is the right answer. Maybe smaller governments the right answer. Maybe balancing the budget is what we have to do. Deregulation. So that's all about going. Government has these inherent limitations and we need to recognize that the reason the founding fathers set it up such that they did was that we know that power corrupts, we know that people, even the populace can derange. So the whole idea, this is Something I don't think people understand. The whole idea between Congress and the Senate is that you could get passions whipped up in the Congress. People that are elected, that they are beholden to their constituents every two years need a countervailing force of people that they don't have. Because originally those weren't even elected officials. They obviously are now, but they didn't used to be.
-
Unknown A
And so they were every six years. And so they were supposed to be these cooler heads that could basically say, okay, look, take a longer term view. Right, yeah, exactly. So people need to have an inherent distrust of the government. Now I'm not anti government. We need a government, but we need to.
-
Unknown B
But you are a libertarian.
-
Unknown A
I wouldn't call myself a libertarian, no, because I, I look at the world and I say humans, when they act as a mob, get really stupid really fast. And you have to have a force in there to mitigate that. When I look at. Because there are really smart people that I hear talking about anarchy and I think that just the. All of human history tells you that humans living in an anarchic system cry out for government because what ends up happening is the strongest person slaps everybody else around and all of a sudden you go, huh, I don't like this. So I would very much like to get a cabal of people that will go and stab that guy to death. And then because we had to do it on mass, we didn't win because we're stronger. We won because we're smarter and because we build coalitions.
-
Unknown A
And now that we know the power of coalitions, let's try to enshrine this. And you just see that play out over and over and over and over and over. So yeah, I don't understand people that either can't accept the realities of the human condition or what, I don't know what it is. Anyway, humans are deeply flawed. America seems like the best experiment so far of how you mitigate against that. It's very sloppy. But you have to have an inherent distrust of government. You have to want to keep government small, you have to want to balance the budget. And then my personal hobby horse, you have a moral obligation to give people, your populace, an opportunity to save their money in something that can't be inflated, Period.
-
Unknown B
Are you a bitcoiner?
-
Unknown A
Oh, yes, aggressively.
-
Unknown B
Is that your single largest asset? Yes, mine too.
-
Unknown A
Now, how do you feel when people say, at least there's a lifeboat, Tom, to all this chicanery of money printing? Does that make you happy or does it?
-
Unknown B
Meaning what? Bitcoin yeah.
-
Unknown A
Like when people, when, like I will get up on a soapbox and I will rail over the fact that the government prints money and that is stealing from its people.
-
Unknown B
Yes, it is. Inflation is a disease.
-
Unknown A
Yes. And a, a disease that leaked out of a lab called the Fed. So the ultimate lab leak hypothesis.
-
Unknown B
We need our, our antiviral agent.
-
Unknown A
Yes. And then people will say, well, that's Bitcoin, Tom, and all is well. Does that make you happy? Or do you want to headbutt them.
-
Unknown B
About being pro Bitcoin or quite that.
-
Unknown A
Saying, it's all good, Tom, There's a solution.
-
Unknown B
I think there is a solution that will still take another five to 10 years to fully materialize. I think we're still in the early days and we could still do a lot of destructive destruction until we get there. I think we need to get this government budget under control. I think that there needs to be intelligence in the system.
-
Unknown A
What does that look like?
-
Unknown B
Well, I think it like, listen, if you were to say, what are the laws governing any industry? How many laws are there? And he fed that through an AI and said, okay, how many of the laws here are conflicting with each other? And what, how could you reduce this? To get rid of 90% of the laws in the books, but keep 90% of the intention. Right. So you can debulk our law system, our IRS code. Omg, it's ridiculous. It's sick, it's written. I'm not going to get into it anyway. So there's a lot of improvement and I'm hopeful that we'll see some changes now, at least in the next two years. But I want to talk about longevity and not government, if you don't mind.
-
Unknown A
Not my area, that is, in terms of whether we're able to unlock that stuff or not. There is a reality to be faced there. So let me ask you one more question about this. So, Elon, what, what is it about him that makes him so efficient, so effective? Like, how does he pull all this off? You know him very well. For people that don't know you, you guys have known each other for a very long time. You're very close. So you have an insight that most would not.
-
Unknown B
Number one, he's brilliant. I mean, let's be very clear. He's extraordinarily, you know, super genius level number two, he is an engineer and he thinks with an engineering mind, a first principle. He will tear apart something to understand, is it going to work? Is it something that I should spend my time on? He thinks probabilistically not absolutely. I think it's an important element here. He's, you know, I listen, I don't know how he does what he does. To be very clear, I remember he was on my board at X Prize and, and he calls me one day back in 2008 when the. Was hitting the fan. You know, Falcon, Falcon 1 had had its third, third failure and he was going through divorce and Tesla was in trouble and he's like, peter, listen, I apologize. I need to step off the X Prize board. I need to focus on Tesla and SpaceX.
-
Unknown B
And he went heads down and I just need to do those two things. And of course, now he's running like six or seven different things. And when I text him to set up a, you know, in a podcast or an interview, whatever the case might be, and I say, well, like, thanks and who should I coordinate with? He goes, me. I go, do you have an assistant? He goes, no.
-
Unknown A
So crazy.
-
Unknown B
And, and he, he does. But it's like, I remember Larry Page at Google, who's also on my board at xprize, said one day I, I let my executive assistant go. I said, huh? Why? And he goes, because if I don't have one, no one can schedule anything on me.
-
Unknown A
That's why I did it.
-
Unknown B
You did the same reason?
-
Unknown A
Yeah. For the same thing. For the exact same reason.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Amazing. Time is the great equalizer, right? All 8 billion people on the planet all have in common 365 days in a year, 24 hours in a day, and that's it. And how you use that time. And so I think one of the things that sets Elon apart is how he thinks about utilizing his time. And he's not a multiplexer. He's very focused on doing one thing and going very deep and focusing on the engineering of that, you know, rocket engine or the, let's get Xai's hundred thousand H100 GPUs talking to each other. It's never been done before. And he dives in and he's just that smart.
-
Unknown A
If you had to peg his like, type of intelligence, is it pattern recognition? Is it not getting trapped by his own bullshit? Like, what is it that makes him so smart?
-
Unknown B
I think it's all of these things, but he's deeply technically knowledgeable and he goes to first principle thinking, right? He will look and try and understand things from the fundamentals and he doesn't bullshit himself. I remember years ago, if you remember, I was in the asteroid business, asteroid mining business, and very excited about that business. I still am And I said, so, Elon, would you buy liquid oxygen from me on orbit if it's cheaper than what you can get? He said, of course I would. He said, but, Peter, you're just too early. You're just too early. And of course, he was right. And being too early is the same thing as being wrong. And so I think his timing of things, it's the way he looks at things, right? He's got a very clear set of mindsets. I mean, mindset is what differentiates him.
-
Unknown A
It's interesting. I know mindset's really important to you as well. What are some of the most important mindsets for somebody that wants to do what you're doing, to face the kinds of craziness and longevity that he's doing? Building rockets.
-
Unknown B
And so I talk about six mindsets. And my next book, Mindset Mastery for next year, is on helping. So if I said to you, listen, think of the greatest leaders in the world, Elon Musk, you know, Steve Jobs, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, whoever you want. And I asked you, what made those people successful? Was it the money they had, the tech they had, the friends they had, or was it their mindset? I think most everybody would say was their mindset, right? If you took everything away from them and they kept their mindset, they would probably regain much of what they lost. And so if that's true, if mindset is your greatest tool as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as a mom, as a dad, whatever, then the question is, what mindset do you have? Where did you get that mindset? And more importantly, what mindset do you need for the decade ahead?
-
Unknown B
And so I fundamentally go deep on that and I've outlined for me a number of mindsets. It's a curiosity mindset, you know, to be, especially now in this period of AI, to have that curiosity mindset, to be willing to go and learn and be curious because you have the most infinite teacher? I think for me, there's a purpose driven mindset, which is one of the most important things, right. Mark Twain mentioned earlier, I love one of his quotes. He goes, you know, there are two important days in your life. The day you were born and the day that you find out why. Right? So I teach a. What's called a massive transformative purpose. I think every single person should have clarity about their purpose in life. I think they should have an mtp. I created a tool using a large language model I built, which is free.
-
Unknown B
It's called mypurposefinder.com or mypurposefinder AI. If you go there, it'll walk you through a series of questions and it will help you elicitate and create what I call a massive transformative purpose. So my MTP is to inspire and guide entrepreneurs to create a hopeful, compelling and abundant future. It's what I care about. It's what wakes me up in the morning when I'm great, when I give gratitudes in the morning. Thank you for letting me serve in this way. I want to help entrepreneurs create that a hopeful, compelling and abundant future because I think that's what humanity needs. So it's a purpose driven mindset. You know, I talk about a moonshot mindset going 10 times bigger, an abundance mindset where you're not worried about some deal you lost, there's going to be 10 times number of deals next year and then finally longevity mindset. And you know, to come back to longevity with a longevity mindset is if you believe that we are in this period of extraordinary scientific technological growth and that you have a crack at having an extra 30 years of health then, and to get access to that, you should take care
-
Unknown B
of yourself. It's what's going to keep you from eating that piece of chocolate cake at night. It's what's going to get you out of a warm, cozy bed and into the gym. It's what's going to help you get to bed on time. Longevity mindset is I care about my longevity. I want to see much of this universe as I can. We're in the middle of this extraordinary opportunity and I'm going to do what it takes to get myself to that launchpad.
-
Unknown A
What do you think about something like an Ozempic or something where you can kind of skirt around the mindset of it all and just be like, well.
-
Unknown B
I think it's a tool. I think Ozempic is a tool that is a godsend for certain people who absolutely need it. I think it's a crutch for other people who should basically just stop eating the donuts, damn it. And get into the gym. So if you're using Ozempic, the dangers are, and I'm sure everybody's heard this before, that much of the weight you lose is muscle mass, which again is your longevity organ. And if you go off Ozempic, you gain back the weight, but not the muscle. And so if you want to use Ozempic for a period of three or four months to train yourself to eat healthy, to get good habits, I added this in the book last. I added an entire chapter on routines, on habits, because for me, the, the most important thing I've, I've done in the last five years is develop really great habits.
-
Unknown B
Like what I do. You know, it's like I'm in bed at 9:30 at night. Why? Because my body wakes up at 5:30 and I want those eight hours of sleep. And at 5:30 the first two hours are mine. And I'm going to do my red light, I'm going to meditate, I'm going to work out, I'm going to write a blog and that's my routine. And I feel comfortable, I feel empowered when I do that routine. And then the rest of the day goes on to the rest of the day. But routines are really important and so can you get into good habits? Right. A habit is a, and a routine is a mechanism by which you don't negotiate with yourself all the time. So use Ozempic if you're using it to get into good healthy eating habits and don't use it as a crutch.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, I worry that there's, anytime you're taking an exogenous substance, there's going to be a second and third order consequence of people.
-
Unknown B
So the GLP1 agonist, that and there's. I talk about this in the book. There are a number of things you can do which are nat. Which naturally cause the same effects as Ozempic, like just chewing your food obsessively for 20 chews before most of us, unfortunately, dinner looks like this in front of the tv. And the worst thing you could possibly do is eat dinner watching the Crisis News Network at night, which puts you in a sympathetic nervous state, a fight or flight state and you don't absorb any of the nutrients. It's like the worst thing. That's why you want to take a deep breath, slow it down, you know, do grace with your family, tell gratitudes. Enjoy that.
-
Unknown A
What do you tell people? Speaking of Crisis News Network, what do you tell people about like politics? I know you don't really pay attention to it. You've been extraordinarily successful. What's your thought?
-
Unknown B
Listen, like you, but not as much, I've become a little bit more aware, wary and respectful of the importance of having the right systems in place for governance.
-
Unknown A
Do you think that's us getting older or is that there really is something unique about this time?
-
Unknown B
I think it is us getting older, us having more to lose us. You know, one of the other things I think about is that, you know, when will we have the, you know, we don't have revolutions very easily. Anymore to create new governments. So I think how would we create new government systems? I think we will have the chance to experiment with new governments off Earth on Mars.
-
Unknown A
Whoa, I didn't see that in a store coming.
-
Unknown B
Oh yeah, on how near term is that?
-
Unknown A
How realistic do you give us being able to create a sustainable colony on Mars?
-
Unknown B
So whether it's on Mars or it's on the moon, or it's in what are called O'Neill colonies which are large containments of a thousand or a million people orbiting, orbiting the sun, maybe, maybe in a co orbit with the Earth. I think we'll see that in the next 20 years. And it's a non, it's a non linear projection. Why is it non linear? Because of AI again. So I want you to imagine, right, so first of all, holy starship. Oh my God, Elon, oxygen out of the room, like you know, drop the mic moment starship being caught by those.
-
Unknown A
Dude so many times.
-
Unknown B
Oh my God. And, and in March, hopefully we're going to see the, the actual starship, this upper stage, if you would also come back first time. We can see a fully reusable vehicle which is like the holy growl of the aerospace industry. It was like always, like when will we see that that ship is the Mayflower. It is the, you know, the workhorse that will take us to the moon, take us to Mars. All other government space programs, all other aerospace companies, you know, pale in comparison, right? There's the US space program, there's the Chinese space program, and there's the Elon space program. So how we get to Mars and to O'Neill colonies and the moon and accelerate rate. Well, we can send humanoid robots powered by AIs to go do all the work, prepare everything, build it, get it ready. So we land there, it's not landing.
-
Unknown B
And like one small step and you're in a spacesuit, you're walking into, you know, a fully built out habitat with liquid water that's been mined and fuel that exists and energy sources. I mean that's an extraordinary future. Now the interesting thing is what we said a few, you know, an hour ago or so was the Fermi paradox. At some point living in a virtual Mars may be far more enticing than going physically to Mars.
-
Unknown A
You know what I think is going to happen?
-
Unknown B
What's that?
-
Unknown A
They're going to go to Mars. If for no other reason than Elon is so hardcore about it, it's actually going to happen. And you will get the people like the guys that responded to Shackleton's notice for this is going to be hard. Probably going to die, but it'll still be.
-
Unknown B
I love that notice.
-
Unknown A
So good. Oh, God, that thing's amazing. So they'll go. But they will live inside of. They'll spend time inside of virtual worlds while they're there as a way to break up the claustrophobia of basically being trapped inside. I remember the first time I put on a VR headset, I was like, oh, this is interesting. This would have zapped a lot of my desire to get rich if I knew that I could just put this on and live inside of a beautiful mansion while I have it on. It's really, really impactful. And as it gets better.
-
Unknown B
By the way, you own an Oculus, right?
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
And you own a Vision Pro?
-
Unknown A
Of course.
-
Unknown B
How many times you use your Vision Pro?
-
Unknown A
Not many.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I bought it. I used it twice, and it's under my desk.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, it'll have to get better. But it. I assumed that would be the case. But in terms of, like, have you seen that demo where the person is wearing it walking through their kitchen? They're like, make it look like the 50s, make it look like an alien landscape. It's unbelievable.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. That is coming. Is coming. And, you know, Sora just got released by OpenAI, and you're going to be able to generate anything you want. Yeah. You know, I was. It was interesting. I was at the Louvre and I was like, wow, this is so beautiful. You know, we couldn't recreate this now with all of the physical architecture and all the artistry and so forth. And I was like, huh? Actually, you just want to have a house with white walls and white ceilings and just be wearing virtual eye gear all the time, and you can make it look like anything.
-
Unknown A
And when it's lightweight, that is exactly what people do, dude. AR is something people do not. I don't think they understand what's going to happen. Like, that's going to be really near term transformative. Yeah, I'm really excited about that one, but I want to go back to space for a second, so. Rank order the three. So we've got the moon, we've got Mars, and we've got the.
-
Unknown B
We got the O'Neill colonies. Yeah. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
So.
-
Unknown B
So we're going back to the moon first. And we will be there.
-
Unknown A
Elon's going back to school. Yeah.
-
Unknown B
100. So Elon is going. And Jeff Bezos. I'm saying people, right? It's SpaceX and Blue Origin. So Blue Origin is. I knew Jeff in college. I started my first organization ever was Students of exploration development space SEDs. And it was a national network of college space groups. And Jeff ran the Princeton chapter. And I was a national chairman. And I remember meeting him years later after he started Amazon. And I'm like, Jeff, like, what's this Amazon thing? I thought you were gonna do space. And he goes, yeah, I'm gonna make my money in Amazon first and then do it in space.
-
Unknown A
Not a bad shot.
-
Unknown B
And one, two, plan real easy. So he's spending about a billion dollars a year and he's been doing his suborbital flights. But he has New Glenn, which will be his orbital vehicle, hopefully will launch this year. So there are two or three companies, there's SpaceX, there's Blue Origin, there's Relativity Space, that are building large vehicles right now. So Starship, there's another vehicle that's been developed by the government, by Boeing and Lockheed, and it'll get canceled. It's just way behind budget. And Starship will, I think, be on the moon within. Within two years.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
And when it does, it'll have the ability to carry 50 people, not two like we had. Right. We're on the moon last on December 17th of 1972 with Jack Schmidt and Gene Cernan. I know it was Gene Cern. I think it was Jack Schmidt as well. And we haven't been back since. But with humans. But we'll go there and we'll start to set up bases on the moon. And the moon will be an incredible habitat where science will get done, research will get done, and we'll develop a human presence, a permanent human presence, probably in the dozens to hundreds of people, permanently habitat there. It'll be more like the Arctic, Antarctic type research basis. Right. Independent of that. This is when I was interviewing Elon in Riyadh at the FI conference, and I asked him, when are we going to Mars? And he said, I'm making a shot to get Starship to Mars in the next two years.
-
Unknown B
So there will be a parallel effort to go to Mars. You know, he has been pretty right on a lot of things. His timing is kind of off sometimes, but there's an incredible opportunity, which sounds like I challenge America to put humans on the surface of Mars by the end of this decade and get them back. Maybe not the back part, but I think boots on Mars will be probably Optimus robots on Mars first.
-
Unknown A
Makes sense.
-
Unknown B
And then humans to follow. So it's. Listen, the. The Star Trek fan in me, it's like, we got data coming, we got starships Coming. It's pretty awesome.
-
Unknown A
Pretty awesome. Now, is it that you cannot build an atmosphere on the Moon because no one's talking about terraforming the Moon, but they do talk about terraforming Mars.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. It's that the Moon doesn't have enough gravitational pull to retain an atmosphere. And there is a very interesting opportunity there. The Moon has large lava tubes, like huge caverns that are under the lunar surface, and you can fill them with atmosphere.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
And one of the cool things you could do inside those lava tubes on the moon filled with atmosphere is fly, because a human with a pair of wings has enough muscle strength in 16 gravity.
-
Unknown A
Oh, my God.
-
Unknown B
Wow. Have you ever been on zero g with me?
-
Unknown A
I have.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. Okay. All right.
-
Unknown A
And so incredible.
-
Unknown B
Yeah. So those of you don't know you can fly a parabolic flight in zero g. And one of my greatest moments in life was taking Stephen Hawking up in weightlessness and letting the world's expert in gravity experience zero gravity.
-
Unknown A
That's cool.
-
Unknown B
And it's something everybody can do. If you go0g.com and the airplane barnstorms around the country and we fly to Long beach and Las Vegas and Florida, other places, and we do 15 of these arcs. The first two are Martian, so you feel one third of your weight. Then we do a couple of lunar. You. You feel one sixth of your weight and then a dozen or so zero G parabolas. So, yeah, space, There's a resurgence, right? And at the same time, another holy moment. Starlink. OMG. Right. On our way to 12, 000 satellites providing 100 megabit to gigabit connection speeds to every square meter on the planet. And now to my T mobile phone.
-
Unknown A
Wow, that's bananas.
-
Unknown B
It is.
-
Unknown A
All right, so rank order for me. Okay, which one?
-
Unknown B
So Moon is first. Moon is first, and we'll build that out over the next decade. It will get more and more capabilities. It'll be science driven mostly. You know, we can do great astronomy there. We can. On the dark side, we can see far. Instead of building, you know, the Webb Telescope in Earth orbit, you build it on the dark side of the Moon and you can see the universe from there. We'll get missions to Mars over the course of the next decade as well. And terraforming Mars is a much bigger endeavor, and it's going to be fraught with political, like, how dare you bomb Mars? You know, because the best way to terraform it is sort of like throw rocks at the poles and increase the atmospheric density of CO2 and maybe some nukes on the poles. But we'll do enclosures there as well.
-
Unknown A
Like the lava tubes.
-
Unknown B
Well, no surface enclosures will build.
-
Unknown A
Got it.
-
Unknown B
Domed cities and we have. But the good thing about Mars is it's got a large water supply, right. And ice and it's got CO2, it's got oxygen bound in the iron, which makes it red. Right. It's rust. And so there's lots of resources there. And so we'll will do that. I, I think the future of humanity in space is in the realm of the O'Neill colonies. Gerard K. O'Neill, another mentor, said, why would you ever go back into a gravitational well? And so he had a concept of these large cylindrical tubes, think like a half kilometer diameter and you know, a couple of kilometers long that are rotating at a right speed to create centrifugal force on the inside. And you live on the inside of this tube. The materials are either off the lunar surface, but much easier to get them out of asteroids.
-
Unknown B
And you have AI and robots to do this manufacturing. And you can have a population of 10,000 people or more living inside there. As they get older, they can move towards the center of rotation and you know, the gravity goes as omega squared r their centripetal acceleration and radius. So as you get to zero towards the center, it becomes lighter and lighter. So you can live in a lower gravity environment if you want. But here's the interesting thing from the politics side. If you have like a group of 10, 50, 100,000 people and they're having political disagreements, they say, okay, listen, we're going to bud, we're going to build another one over here. And the Democrats can go there, the Republicans can go there and stop the fighting. And you know, this is. Listen, I love Elon and all that he's done. He's got a Mars vision.
-
Unknown B
Jeff Bezos, because he was at Princeton, same place that Gerard K. O'Neill was. His vision is much more of this O'Neillian vision of these colonies and such.
-
Unknown A
Wow, that's really interesting. Okay, so ballpark me, when will the first O'Neill colony?
-
Unknown B
Oh, I think that if in fact humanity still hasn't has the drive to want to do this, I think that is probably more like, I don't know, there's going to be a lot of trillionaires by then and a lot of low cost labor. So If I said 30 years, that might be pessimistic, but I'll say 30 years.
-
Unknown A
Okay. It's incredible. Well, you're certainly giving me a lot of Reasons to want to live forever.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just let me hit that one second. Because I think when I'm with my abundance community and I'm talking about longevity and such, I'm like, listen, the number one thing besides all of the stuff on food, diet, exercise, meds, supplements, not dying something stupid is having a purpose and having a vision. And if I said to you, listen, I'm going to give you 20 extra healthy years, Tom, what are you going to do with those 20 years? I think most people can figure that out. Now, if I said to you, you got 50 extra years, a lot of people's brains break on that. Like, I don't know what to do with 50 extra years.
-
Unknown A
It's a big difference.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown A
So you've talked a lot about don't die from something stupid. So we've already heard, sugar. What else can we do to make sure that we don't die from something stupid?
-
Unknown B
So the chapter on that, and it's a really important message for everybody, which is, our bodies are really good at hiding disease. You think you're fine, but you have no idea. So it turns out these stats are pretty scary. 70% of all heart attacks have no precedent. No shortness of breath, no signs even on a typical calcium score. You could have a calcium score of 0 and have a heart attack that night. Because it's not the calcified plaque, it's the soft plaque. You don't feel the cancer until stage three or stage four. You know, we all know people who go to the hospital with a pain, and the doctor says, well, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you've got this situation going on, this cancer or whatever the case might be. It didn't happen that morning. It's been going on for some time. You just didn't know it.
-
Unknown B
And here's the stunner. 70% of the cancers that kill you are never tested for, right? So we test for breast and prostate and colon, but we don't test for, you know, we don't test for pancreatic cancer or for glioblastomas or a whole slew of other cancers. They're just not part of the routine medical care. And you can know what's going on inside your body. And people go, I don't want to know. And I was like, bullshit. Of course you want to know. You're going to find out eventually. You want to know now. We can do something about it or when it's too late. So four years ago, I joined With Bill Cap and Tony Robbins. And we built this company called Fountain Life. And it's. I built it for myself and my family and the friends that I love. I put my CEOs, my companies through it and they're these 10,000 foot diagnostic centers.
-
Unknown B
They're diagnostics and therapeutics. And you go through, it's about four and a half hours and we digitize you, upload you full body mri, brain, brain vasculature. It's a coronary CT looking at coronary arteries, but using an AI overlay called clearly looking for soft plaque, which is what will kill you. A low dust long ct, a DEXA scan, your full genome, your metabolome, your microbiome, your retinal scan, your skin scans. It's all the data we can collect about you. It's 300 gigabytes. I'm sorry, 200 gigabytes of data.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
And here are the numbers. 2% of our members who are seemingly healthy, they think they're fine, have a cancer they don't know about. Two out of 100 two and a half percent have an aneurysm they don't know about. And 14.4% have either metabolic disease, neurocognitive disease, cardiovascular disease, or a cancer. And they need to take action right away. And so I go through this fountain apex upload every year. I kind of hold my breath. And we are there to answer two questions. Number one, is there anything going on inside your body you need to know about? And if there is, let's take care of it right away. And number two, what is likely to happen to you and how do we optimize you to prevent that from happening? Because this is the world we're living in right now, right? So I call this not dying from something stupid.
-
Unknown B
It's not cheap. It's 19,500 bucks for the full body upload, but also includes a medical wraparound team. So it's quarterly testing. You get a functional medicine doctor who's with you the entire year, a nurse, a dietitian, a health coach. And that wraparound helps you really optimize yourself. We just are launching now a program at $6,500, which includes the upload and the first consult. And we're doing it through companies for their employees. And all of this is going to demonetize at the end, right? It's all going to get cheaper and cheaper every year. As AI, the humans are still the expensive part, right? The machinery is getting cheaper. We're eventually, we have a program called Fountain Life at Home. Because all of this will move out of the doctor's office, out of the hospitals, into your home. Right? So I've got a cgm, an OURA ring, an Apple watch.
-
Unknown B
And I'll eventually have dozens of sensors on my body, in my body, uploading to my AI, which is monitoring everything all the time. And my AI is going to be sending information to the robot chef in my kitchen saying, this is what Peter should be eating tonight. You know, it's an interesting close the loop. If you turn on health Coach, it'll say, hey, lazy, don't take the elevator, there's a staircase over there. Or time to get out of bed. Or you can turn that off if you want. But you know, it's good to have someone with you, supporting you. So when I talk about not dying for something stupid, it's going through Fountain Life. There are other programs as well. I think we've got the best, most comprehensive program out there and I still want you to come through it.
-
Unknown A
No man, for sure. 100%. If it's in LA, that's easy.
-
Unknown B
But you know that six months out I've had so many people, we've saved so many lives.
-
Unknown A
Yeah. This is terrifying. I know. You had a fraternity, fraternity brother of.
-
Unknown B
Mine who was supposed to come in and, and died in his sleep. I had. Do you know Sam Nazarian by any chance?
-
Unknown A
No.
-
Unknown B
So Sam was the head, is hotelier, very successful, the head of SLS hotels. And he and Tony Robbins and a few others started something called the Estates. And these will be 25, six star resorts and, and residences around the world. And we're. We cut a deal. Well, he approached us, he. He looked at all the other players and he chose us. And we're going to embed found life into all of those resorts and developments. So he came. I said, come through Orlando, our headquarters, and go through the process. Now Sam and his wife have the best physicians in the world. Went through, we found two brain aneurysms and he was in surgery a week later. Jesus is fine now he's publicly said, you know, made this public statement. So I'm okay sharing it, but you just never know.
-
Unknown A
Too true. Speaking of what we may never know, tell me, will we see people live to an average life expectancy of 151st or a million people living either in an O'Neill sphere on the Moon or Mars?
-
Unknown B
Oh, I think we'll hit the longevity side first.
-
Unknown A
Yeah.
-
Unknown B
Oh, for sure.
-
Unknown A
Okay. Wow. It's pretty near term.
-
Unknown B
Yeah, I think that it's under it's going to. It's not magic. It's not. It's just not understood why we age. Let me say that differently. We have a lot of theories of why we age. There are the hallmarks of aging. There are 12 things that we believe are causing aging. And there's a chapter on. I take about God now, 80, 85, meds and supplements every day. And people are like, what do you take and why do you take it? And how do you decide? And so I laid out in the book, and it's not for everybody. It's. I've gotten there a little bit of time in consultation with my doctors, and I looked at each of these 12 hallmarks of aging, like. Like stem cell exhaustion or mitochondrial failures. And there are supplements and meds to support each one of them. So I break it down for each one of these hallmarks.
-
Unknown B
These are the meds or supplements that I'm taking to counter that. And again, everybody should do. Should develop their own plan in consultation with a physician. There will eventually be an AI that takes in your genetics, takes in all your health data, says, what's your objective, Tom? Do you want more muscle? Do you want more mental clarity? You want better sleep? What do you want? And how many pills you willing to take per day? Right. Which is an important one. I'm only willing to take 10. Okay. These are the top 10 you should take.
-
Unknown A
How many do you take a day?
-
Unknown B
Like 85 now, when I wrote the book, it was 75. It's gone up. My mom says, hey, how do you know they don't interfere with each other? I said, mom, I don't. I don't. But I'm doing. I feel great. Yeah, I am doing great. So, you know, so far, so good.
-
Unknown A
Absolutely fascinating. What is the craziest thing you think we're going to find at the intersection of health and tech? Like, near term.
-
Unknown B
Wow. Oh, I got this. Do you know that we just mapped the connectome of the brain of a fruit fly?
-
Unknown A
So all the different.
-
Unknown B
So the fruit fly has 154,000 neurons and I think 54 million synapses. And we used a lot. We used an AI to map that exact connection of the fruit fly and put it up into a computer model. And so you can say if we did this to the fruit fly, touched it here, gave it this kind of chemical, whatever, what would it do? And then do it, and it does the exact same thing.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
Right. And so here's what's next. We'll go from the fruit fly connectome to a Mouse on stage at the Abundance summit. This year on my moonshot day, I've got the CEO of a company that is brilliant. What they're doing and how they're doing it, who believes he can map the connectome of our brains for about $50 million for the first one.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
Our 100 billion neurons, 100 trillion synaptic connections. So, you know, the brain has always been somewhat of a black box.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
So that's one. There's another one. Oh my God. Do you know Mary Lou Jepsen?
-
Unknown A
That name sounds familiar.
-
Unknown B
Oh, God almighty. She is incredible. Dear, dear friend, full disclosure, I'm an advisor and investor through my venture fund and her company called Open Water. She's brilliant. So here's a woman who is head of engineering at Facebook, at Google, at intel. She ran the first one laptop per child program with Nicholas, a PhD in holography professor at MIT. I mean really brilliant, who as a teenager into college, has a brain tumor undiagnosed. And she's dropping out of her PhD program to go home and die.
-
Unknown A
Oh my God.
-
Unknown B
And her, one of her professors says, listen, I think you should have an mri. And he pays for her to have an mri and they discover a brain tumor that was undiagnosed. And she has surgery and she gets fully cured. She had to have her pituitary removed, so she takes a whole bunch of meds every day just to do pharmaceutical replacement. She is, I can't sing her praise enough. This woman will get the Nobel Prize for her work. So what has she done? She has learned how to use the consumer electronics industry. Like our cameras on these phones are miracles of what they're able to do. She has created devices that are micro miniaturized. They've gone from a room size of equipment down to something about the size of a block like this, like, like a thousand times smaller, a thousand times cheaper. That is able to use infrared, infrared light, holography and ultrasound to do a number of things.
-
Unknown B
So number one, her devices, which you, which you attach on your head with a headband, can detect whether you're having a stroke or not. And which will say it's strokes, the number two killers in the world. Unfortunately, by the time you diagnose someone as having a stroke, a lot of times it's way too late. The hospital doesn't have the tech to solve the stroke if you diagnose it early. 100% recovery, right? So this device she'll put in every ambulance so that you can detect whether they have a stroke or not. All right? Next thing, this device, she's able to guide the exact energy of ultrasound and infrared to different parts of the brain. And she has determined, she built brain organoids. A brain organoid is a. Take human neural stem cells and grow a small brain. Okay. They do. It's, it's been done for a while now.
-
Unknown B
You can, you can do a kidney organoid, a lung organoid, liver organoid, a brain organoid, a heart organ. So it's, it's a collection, you know, could be the size of your thumb, whatever, but tens of millions of those cells. And what she did was she developed one of those brain organoids that had glioblastoma tumors in them, which is, it's a. Today, if anybody gets glioblastoma as a diagnosis, it's death sentence, like in months, maybe a year. And what she found was because these tumor cells are so rapidly growing, it's a whole segment on her. Because they're rapidly growing, the cells are mostly all nucleus with very little cytoplasm because the nucleus is dividing and creating another one and dividing, creating another one doesn't have time for the cytoplasm to grow.
-
Unknown A
Right.
-
Unknown B
And so because it's very different than the other cells that are mostly cytoplasm with the nucleus, and this is all nucleus is a different resonance frequency. And so what she has been able to do is use the ultrasound from one of these little devices to be able to rupture all of the cancer cells in the glioblastoma in your brain.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
And basically it's going into humans next. It's been done in mice. It cures them of their glioblastoma. Wow. Gets better. She's been able to identify if you have mental disorders or addiction. She can provide a 5 minute per day treatment with this device that will down regulate your ADD or your depression or your addiction. Five minutes a day.
-
Unknown A
I mean, that would be transformative.
-
Unknown B
It is transformative, right? I mean, she's amazing. So you asked me about what I'm expecting in the short term. So she ended up. She did some early financing rounds. I helped her raise money, my venture company invested. And then she had this huge hurdle to productize this stuff because her goal was like, I need to get this really cheap and available to as many people as possible. She went to Vitalik Buterin, the founder of Ethereum.
-
Unknown A
Yeah, yeah.
-
Unknown B
And he said, if you open source it, I'll give you $50 million to do what you need to do.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
So he did. Didn't ask for any equity. And she's open sourced it. And so these devices will be manufactured, available to people around the world and it will become software as medication. So imagine these devices and she has a whole bunch of different form factors for different parts of the body. And a research lab will be able to say, okay, I want to address this type of inflammatory bowel disease using infrared. And. And there'll be thousands of people using these devices as new medical diagnostic and therapeutic tools that will cost effectively nothing.
-
Unknown A
Wow.
-
Unknown B
I mean, I just, it's. I'm sorry, there's 100 stories like this, which is why I'm so extraordinarily excited about this healthspan revolution coming.
-
Unknown A
What do you see as you extend the timeline out? What's the craziest intersection of health and tech that you see in a mid.
-
Unknown B
To long term BCI brain computer interface? The ability to connect your brain seamlessly to the cloud and be.
-
Unknown A
You see that as long term, even though we're.
-
Unknown B
No, no, no, no, no. I don't see that long term. I see that in the next decade. One of the guys I have on stage in March at the Abundance Summit is Max Hodak, who is the co founder of Neuralink and he's got a new company called Science, which blows away Neuralink.
-
Unknown A
It's a bold statement.
-
Unknown B
It is a bold statement. What he's done in terms of being able to, you know, Neuralink will have like a thousand connections into the neocortex. And when you put these connections in, even something, a fraction of a human cell, a human hair, still kills cells and disrupt cells when you put them in and the immune system encapsulates them. Later, he's developed a mechanism by which he grows neural stem cells out of a electronic circuitry and the neural stem cells grow into the brain. What like roots into the ground and sci fi, dude. Yes. Yes. I mean, this is stuff I spend all day researching, investing and thinking about, writing about because it. I can't, I can't sleep with all this stuff going on. And instead of like a thousand connections into the brain, how about a million or 10 million connections into the brain? And you know our corpus callosum that connects the right and left half of the brain.
-
Unknown B
Imagine another hemisphere of the brain.
-
Unknown A
Whoa.
-
Unknown B
Wow. Whoa. Yeah.
-
Unknown A
That is nuts.
-
Unknown B
Yeah.
-
Unknown A
Peter, every time I spend time with you, it is absolutely extraordinary. Where can people follow along with you?
-
Unknown B
So first of all, Longevity Guidebook, you can get it at cost while it's on Amazon. I donate all that money from Amazon to xprize. I'm offering it at you know, at cost, everybody. @longevityguidebook.com There's a whole bunch of additional bonuses and videos and all kinds of stuff there. So please. My job is to get this out as far and wide to as many people as possible. I don't need more revenue from a book. I want to get this out to the world right, because we're living in this amazing time. My podcast is called Moonshots. Someday I hope to to aspire to what the incredible job you've done, my friend.
-
Unknown A
Oh, brother, you're killing it.
-
Unknown B
And. And diamandis.com and Peter Diamandis on all social.
-
Unknown A
I love it. All right, everybody, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. If you like this conversation, check out this episode to learn more.
-
Unknown B
I think the AI Censorship wars are going to be a thousand times more.
-
Unknown A
Intense and a thousand times more important. My guest today is someone who doesn't just keep up with innovation, he creates it. The incredible Marc Andreessen. Trust me, when someone like Mark, who spent his entire career betting on the future, says.