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Unknown A
Prince will lead. Thank you very much. The reason I've been so anxious to talk to you is because as someone who's been investing more successfully than almost anyone around the world for 45 years, I think you've got a pretty good handle of what's going on in the world. Are you hopeful right now in this moment? Let's just start biggest possible picture.
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Unknown B
Yes, I'm positive. I'm hopeful with, with the Trump administration coming very forcefully. Yes. With clear vision about where the world should be heading. I'm optimistic, cautiously optimistic. But it's going to take some time because the legacy that Trump had is a big one. Yes. On foreign policy, domestic policy, debt, immigration. We will talk about all these things obviously today. But the legacy is so big and we've seen that the first week of Trump or Now the first 10 days is coming very strongly. And I really hope that this momentum stays and a positive effect on the international community as much as it will have a good impact on the domestic gas policy.
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Unknown A
When Trump was elected in November, the world was really on the, on the cusp of two major, of two big conflicts that could potentially get much bigger in Eastern Europe and in this region. Do you think he can successfully resolve those conflicts?
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Unknown B
Look, we all know Netanyahu is going to meet him tomorrow.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
And I really hope that President Trump is very forceful in imposing or at least forcing Israel to have a peaceful resolution to this Palestinian issue that's been going on since the 19, late 1919 40s. It's about time to have a fine solution for the Palestinian cause to stop all those terrorists act that are really unwanted like the one happened in October. And obviously you're alluding to the Ukraine war also. It's about time to have this war end useless war between Russia and Ukraine that, that caused, you know, hundreds of thousands of people die from both sides, civilians and yes. And, and otherwise.
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Unknown A
What's the solution to the problem in the Middle East?
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Unknown B
Look, the state official position of Saudi Arabia, which I really support of current Prince Mohammed bin Salman who was was announced on your external fox. Yes. He said publicly that, you know, we are having discussions with Israel to acknowledge each other but as a quid pro quo, we need a Palestinian state. We have, we need to have the rights of the Palestinians acknowledged and we need to have Palestine independent and its capital city East Jerusalem. So if these things are met, I think Saudi Arabia is more than ready to have diplomatic relations between Saudi, between, between Saudi Arabia and Israel. As Crown Prince Mohamed Al Salman announced.
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Unknown A
A few months ago from an Outsider's perspective. Saudi Arabia does not have official diplomatic relations with Israel, but it's certainly aligned with Israel against Iran. That's the way it looks from outside. Is that, do you think it's fair to say?
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Unknown B
Oh, look, I mean, it's very easy to get against, against Iran, aligned against Iran. Iran, you know, is a nation based dogmatically on terroristic ideas. You know, we have seen how every country that Iran goes to, you have turmoil. Look at Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Sudan, all those countries. What's common among them, you have the Iranian infiltration in them. So clearly it's not, it's not, is not, not easy, not difficult at all to be an alliance when any country against Iran, because Iran always plants the seeds of trouble, chaos and confusion wherever they are.
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Unknown A
So that's the view of Israel too, as you know.
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Unknown B
Exactly.
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Unknown A
So you have that, that big perspective in common with the Israeli government, despite your differences. So there's been progress, I would say, between Saudi Arabia and Israel, but I don't think there's been any progress on the prospect of a Palestinian state. People have been saying that for, you know, well, certainly since 1967, but we're, it feels like we're farther from that.
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Unknown B
We are very far, of course, after what happened in Gaza. But I think with the strong leadership from the United States and with the effectiveness that the United States could really have in the west bank with the Palestinian authorities, if they can have these people being more effective and more dynamic and inject some fluidity and some, some power and influence in them, they could really be the power to reckon with where Israel could have a, negotiate with the Palestinian Authority and hopefully that they can have a control over what's happening in Gaza. Also.
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Unknown A
How closely are people in the Arab world following what's happening there?
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Unknown B
Well, for sure. I mean, the Arab world has been following very closely the destruction happened in Gaza. I mean, for sure, a terrorist attack did happen there in October. But the disproportionate and the complete disproportionately proportionality of the Israeli attack on Gaza that wiped out the whole northern part of Gaza was really unwarranted. You know, hospitals, schools, cities, universities, they were all demolished completely. So, yes, we're following them very closely, for sure.
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Unknown A
Do people here hold the United States responsible for that?
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Unknown B
I'm not sure at all that they hold the United States. I mean, some do, do, do do that and they capitalize on the very positive and strong alliance between the United States and Israel. But realistically speaking, what happened there really was really Israeli based. Clearly United States did support that. But we have seen also even the Biden administration and even Trump, you know, I'm not sure he was very much happy with what happened there at all. But at the end of the day, you know, what happened did happen. And now we need to see how we can put this behind us and open a new chapter in the Middle East. Clearly with the Syrian regime neutralized and having a new, I will not say pro Western regime, but at least not anti America regime in Syria with Hamas hopefully demolished completely and more importantly, Hezbollah being almost neutralized in Lebanon.
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Unknown B
These are very big pluses for the as an inducement for to have a peaceful solution for the Palestinian cause.
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Unknown A
You know, Donald Trump, well, I know.
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Unknown B
A long time ago, you know, from, from the time we bought from him the Plaza Hotel and we also bought from him the. His Trump prince's yacht that I still have.
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Unknown A
How did you wind up with Donald Trump's yacht? Not many people can say that not many people have Donald Trump's yacht. But you do. How'd you get it? I mean, how did that happen?
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Unknown B
Yeah, we bought it. I think, you know, in the late 80s, Trump did take possession of it and he renovated it and I think he reached a stage where he, you know, he did not really want to have it anymore. So he did buy it from him.
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Unknown A
What was your experience with Trump? What's he like?
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Unknown B
Oh, I mean, look, with Trump, I think if you straight with him, you know, you get a straight answer. You know, we had very good dealing with President Trump, you know, when he was a businessman, whether during the purchase of the Plaza Hotel from him or buying his Trump Princess yacht.
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Unknown A
So you were not anti Trump?
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Unknown B
Oh, no, no, we can't be anti Trump, you know, because we are pro America. We have to be pro Trump, especially with the new policies that he's taking right now. You know, I'm very much conservative, socially speaking. Yes. And all his policies right now in being anti woke, being anti left wing, being anti, all those crazy things that's happening on the left, we are for sure pro Trump on these matters. And also all his policies, economical policies that in looking after the eradication of the US Deficit, these are all conservative policies that we support. Look, I lived in America. I graduated from the west coast, you know, from university in California, and I finished my master's in the east coast in America. So we all love America. We want America to be strong.
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Unknown A
What did you think over the last eight years as you watched the woke the sexual politics in the United States?
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Unknown B
I mean, it went just too far, too much, you know, really. And it's about time for America to get a logical person, a pragmatic person like Trump. I know some of his policies are extreme to some people, but. But his social policies being anti woke, being anti left wing, completely being too liberal. I mean, these are really policies that, you know, this illogical. They are. You know, look, I'm a religious person. You know, America is still a very conservative country. And one of the main ingredients of the success of. Of Trump in having in the last election was really his social policies. Many people in America believe that America went too much to the left. So I think getting back America to center, at least the center, not to necessarily to the right, the center, that in itself is a big achievement for America.
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Unknown A
So you hear that in countries around the world. We admire the United States. The entire leadership of most of the world went to college in the United States.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
How did people in this region and other countries visit feel about seeing men dressed as women at the White House and all that stuff? Were they.
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Unknown B
It's crazy. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. And this transgender idea right now, I mean, having in the military all those transgender people, you know, and toilets, you know, having. Being mixed and, you know, having, for example, a male who was transferred in the lady go and compete into women's sports, I guess it's too much. It's going too far. It's just too much. I mean, we reached the stage in America. If you're not woke, I mean, you are crazy or you are anti establishment. And I don't think it's too much. It's going too far. So I think what Trump is doing right now is at least moving to the center. You know, we are not against lbgtq. Even the plus, whatever the plus means.
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Unknown A
What is the plus?
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Unknown B
That's the scary part. I would rather not talk about it.
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Unknown A
You'd rather not talk about the plus?
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Unknown B
I'd rather not talk about. That's very scary.
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Unknown A
Yeah, I agree.
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Unknown B
The plus, lbt, you understand, but the plus, that's, you know, we can have another interview for that. Let's put this aside.
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Unknown A
I'm comfortable with that.
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Unknown B
Thank you very much.
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Unknown A
So that, I mean, you must have been confused watching that. This is a country. You went to school and, you know.
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Unknown B
Well, yeah, yeah, I lived in America and when I was in America. I know. I mean, you have left wing, right wing, that's fine.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
But to go that much to the left and have this woke movement, no, it went too far. Look, America leads the world. I understand there are, you know, China wants to be there, India wants to be there, the Europeans want to be there. At the end of the day, America is, is the leading the world, whether you like it or not. No matter how isolationist policies are adopted in America, America will still lead the world for many years to come.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
Politically, economically, financially, in all, in all, in all, in all cases. So we want America, America to lead the right way. You cannot lead America. You cannot lead the world with this woke movement. You cannot. We will not accept that.
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Unknown A
You're one of the biggest media investors in the world and have been. I worked for a company. I think you were the biggest outside investor, think in News Corp. Fox News. And you got investments in many different media companies. Many of those media companies went way to the left. What did you think of that as a shareholder?
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Unknown B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, our main investment was with Fox, frankly speaking, and it was Murdoch. Murdoch was always, you know, mainstream to the right a little bit, obviously. So we did have a lot of other investments, small one, but they were all deficit long time ago. Yeah, but our main investment in old media, legacy media, and we sold out, you know, a year before he merged his entities with, with Disney.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown B
Yes. So no left, the media in the Latin America went too much to the left. And most of them, the only remaining soldier, frankly speaking, who really withstood the heat is the empire. Whether it's Fox, New York Post, Wall Street Journal and Fox, they are all, you know, sent to the right.
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Unknown A
So you, you divested from Fox, from News Corp. And then you made a huge investment in X under Elon.
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Unknown B
Exactly.
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Unknown A
Why'd you do that?
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Unknown B
Yeah, most, most our investments now went to X and Xi. Obviously they were with, with, with the Musk. Now in the mean, you know, I call actually is the new media, frankly speaking, X, that's, that's why we invested. And with Mr. Musk, I think, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's a big force to be, to be reckoned with, frankly speaking. And we are second biggest shareholder in X and Xai.
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Unknown A
So the sale of X was closely watched by everybody around the world. He wound up buying the company at what seemed like twice its actual value and people made fun of him. Where is it now, would you say?
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Unknown B
Yeah, on our books, you know, we have two investments. We have Kingdom holding, which I share.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
And I have my private investments. So we have with Musk, around $3 billion investments in our books. It's valid. More, more, more than 50% more clearly as for X, we never devalued it. We, you know, some entities did devalue it by 30, 40, 50%. We never devalued it Clearly. Now after the election of President Trump and after the strong alliance between Musk and President Trump, we've seen the market having revalue upwards extramatically at least to its par value at the $44 billion that they paid for it.
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Unknown A
What do you think its actual value is?
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Unknown B
I believe the actual value is more than double, frankly speaking.
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Unknown A
More than double the 44 he paid.
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Unknown B
Exactly. And it's going more than double. And it's going to happen right now because videos are going to come and you know, now pay, pay is going to come into it, you know, they're going to pay X. It's going to happen right now in the first quarter. So many things is going to happen to actually to have as the main hub an anchor for many things around it.
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Unknown A
So. But as a, as a political and social force, is there a more powerful media organization?
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Unknown B
As stands today, I believe X is really the number one. We've seen how Meta tried to have another company thread.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown B
But it didn't take off.
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Unknown A
Why?
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Unknown B
Look, I think actually began very forcefully and strongly and the freedom of speech was there, was open, you know, clearly whenever it was against X, freedom of speech and freedom of expression without much fact checking that gave it the forum to be the anchor of the new media in the world. And you see right now Meta is moving the X model, as I told you when I just met you off the record a minute ago, that Meta now is being exercised.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown B
Like X right now. And this, this helps X reaching its potential of, of, of being fully valued at $44 billion and more. So all the advertisers that the so called fled or left X are coming back right now because the alternative is doing exactly what X used to do.
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Unknown A
Right. So you think that Elon Musk has had a big effect on Mark Zuckerberg?
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Unknown B
There's no doubt, because we have seen now Mark Zuckerberg and Meta is moving the, the, to the X model. Not only that, you know, not only operationally, but you have seen just lately that media is going to move this so called administrative headquarters from Delaware to Texas. So really Musk and X been followed across the board.
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Unknown A
So you think Zuckerberg's just kind of trailing behind Elon Musk doing what he does?
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Unknown B
Well, you know, look, Musk is very close to the leader of the whole world, President Trump, and no one wants no businessman, whether it is Mark Zuckerberg or Mr. Bezos or the Google head, want Musk to be the only man who has the ear of President Trump. They all want to have at least a small piece of the pie. Yes, and that's what's happening, basically.
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Unknown A
But what's interesting, clearly, but what's interesting is that they didn't want it the first time. All these businessmen, smartest, most powerful in the world, made a bet in 2016 that opposing Trump would pay off for them. Why do you think they did that?
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Unknown B
It was a wrong bet. Yeah, very broadly speaking was wrong. But Trump came back in a major upset.
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Unknown A
He must have scared the hell out of them when he got elected.
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Unknown B
I mean, imagine no one expected Trump to come back. Frankly speaking. And frankly speaking, the Democrats played a very big mistake. They custom made. You know, I talk as an independent, I'm a Saudi, I'm a royalist, neither Democrat or Republican. You know, I love America. They clearly custom made those lawsuits against them.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
To be an election year, and I understand it's very delicate, not many people in America could speak this language freely. But they custom made it to be an election year and that backfired, frankly speaking, and helped Trump being elected. Yes, you know, and they were custom made to be. I mean, why you waited three years after Trump left and they all came these lawsuits in the last one year, last one year of the Biden era, that was too much.
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Unknown A
So you didn't see that as the equal application of the law?
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Unknown B
Come on, give me a break. That's very clear. I lived in America, I know America very well. There's too much politics. That's one of the attributing reasons that caused Trump to win. The American public rejected these lawsuits and all those so called indictments or whatever they are.
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Unknown A
Do you ever feel like you can't trust the things you hear or read? Like every news source is hollow, distorted, or clearly just propaganda lying to you? Well, you're not imagining mentioning it. If the last few years have proven anything, it's that legacy media exists to distort the truth and to control you. To gatekeep information from the public instead of letting you know what's actually going on. They don't want you to know. But there is, however, a publication that fights this that is not propaganda. One that we read every month and have for many years. It's called Imprimis. It's from Hillsdale College in Michigan. Imprimus is a free speech digest that features some of the best minds in the country addressing the questions that actually matter, the ones that are not addressed in the Washington Post or on NBC News. The best part of it, it is free.
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Unknown A
No cost whatsoever. No strings attached. They just send it to you. Hillsdale will send in primus right to your house. No charge. All you gotta do is ask. Go to TuckerForHillsdale.com and subscribe for free today. That's TuckerForHillsdale.com the only way this stays a democracy is if the citizenry is informed. You can't fight tyranny if you don't know what's going on. Imprimis helps. It's free. Don't wait. Sign up now. So if you're Mark Zuckerberg and you spent $400 million to beat Trump in 2020, and all of a sudden he rises from the grave, how do you feel? Terrified. Right.
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Unknown B
Well, at least, you know, to acknowledge your mistake and to correct it is better than continuing with your mistake. Right. And to be honest with you, you know, I'm invested in Meta, also smaller scale, not like X, but I'm investing. And he's right. Look at the share price, reflecting the share price.
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Unknown A
You've invested in X. AI. What, what do you envision the world looks like after, in 10 years thanks to AI?
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Unknown B
Well, no doubt that, you know, artificial intelligence is, is going to play a big role in having evolution in the whole, in the social industry and the economics, politics, economics, finance, etc. So AI is just beginning. We are in the first inning right now.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
And there's no doubt that art and sufficient intelligence will really impact the lives of everybody.
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Unknown A
I often hear people say that I'm not exactly. I mean, I know that like the entire upper middle class of the United States is going to be unemployed. It sounds like that's bad, but I don't, I don't understand what the other effects are of AI.
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Unknown B
Look, it's too early to judge, frankly speaking right now, but I hope that the AI really is used, you know, for the good causes. We hear a lot of doomsday scenarios. You know, I talked to Musk about that. You know, I had with him three video calls and I did ask him about this question very explicitly. And, you know, he believes that, you know, 80 to 90% will be positive, but still, you know, 0 to 10% could be evilish. So we have to be very careful about that. But I'm positive about AI because, you know, most people are really, you know, good, positive, and they utilize AI in a way to help the world society.
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Unknown A
Elon, when he came into X, when you invested, fired what percentage of the staff?
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Unknown B
When Musk took over, they had around 8,000 people and he fired 6,500 people and went down to 1,500. And that's all documented, obviously. Yes. And that's one of the items where I'm really upset from the legacy media where Audi said they cursed Musk and x for finding 6,500 people and they worried about their social lives and how disrupted their lives, which is fine. I mean, eventually they'll have jobs. But no one talked about the economical and financial impact of having firing 6,500 people on Twitter. They saved more than $2 billion and that saved the day because, you know, many advertisers did, you know, leave X. And there are two components of profitability. Increased revenues or decreased expenses. So clear revenues did go down, but expenses went down dramatically also. So that broke even. So really, that saved the day. Yes, 6,500 people were out and X was running more efficiently.
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Unknown B
Because I'm always in touch with Glinda.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
You know, the CEO of Jared, right hand man of Musk, and I'm in touch with Musk. And I follow this very closely because I'm, you know, a private investor there. So, you know, it's going inside. The company is performing a lot better with, with 1,500 people. So if Mr. Musk duplicate that on what he's doing right now with the US Budget and he can save hundreds of billions of dollars. Forget $2 trillion, maybe it's that, that's a bit too extreme. But he can save hundreds of millions, billions of dollars, and you can have America reduce its budget deficit dramatically, let alone to have it balanced. That'd be a huge achievement. Huge achievement for Mr. Musk personally and for the US administration, Trump and the US people.
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Unknown A
You think he can do it?
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Unknown B
Look, he's a bulldozer. I know him very well. And when I talk to him, the guy is just so straight to the point, you know, no nonsense at all. If there's anyone to do it, frankly speaking, it's Musk through the dodge.
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Unknown A
So you know Elon Musk and you know Donald Trump. They're in close alliance. Now, Elon is not a government official, obviously, but he is, you'd have to say, one of the top advisors. Can that partnership last?
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Unknown B
Look, they are both big figures, but Trump is President of the United States. Musk is the richest man in the world. He's one of the most powerful, if not most powerful men in the world. You have to acknowledge that that's A fact.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
And I think for the sake of the United States, we want them to function very well. We want them to succeed very well. You know, clearly each one has huge ego for sure, and rightly so. They have to have an ego. Nothing wrong with that at all. And I really sincerely hope that they can function together. Musk is very pragmatic person, logical person, because he has a mission. He wants to cut the cost in the US system, in the US budget system, and he wants to really, to balance the budget as much as he can. He told me that personally in my last phone call with him. And I believe he's given the tools and he's given the tools, frankly speaking, and I hope they're all success for them. Frankly speaking. We all love United States. We want America to have strong footings. You cannot be strong if you have all these budget deficits and trade deficits and that will make you limp eventually.
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Unknown A
Western Europe seems like it's falling apart. Is that your impression?
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Unknown B
Western brilliantly is aging, is sick. You know, you've seen most of the West Europe, specifically wrong policies, bureaucracy, low speed and movement. You know, we see Italy, for example, under Meloni. You know, she's not the star. She's a conservative. I will not say right wing Frank Speaker. No, no, she's very conservative and pragmatic lady. And look, now Italy is the star in all Europe right now. But really, do you ever think you.
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Unknown A
Would live long enough to say Italy is now the star of Europe?
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Unknown B
Yeah. And I really hope that Europe wakes up because, you know, West Europe is alive, United States, of course. But really, look at the policies in England, uk, France, Germany, Spain. They are really very much backwards. They need to wake up.
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Unknown A
Frankly speaking, can a country run without energy?
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Unknown B
It's almost impossible. You cannot, you cannot. I mean, so look at uk I mean look, the labor took part, took the reign of power from the conservatives and look where they are right now. They're exactly what the, where the conservatives were when they left the government. Yes. Few months ago.
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Unknown A
So the UK is running out of natural gas. And. But that, and that's true across Western Europe. These countries don't have enough energy to have first world economies. Will that change?
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Unknown B
Look, I'm not worried about that, frankly speaking, because you know, they will always find a way to find gas, you know, whether it's United States or other parts. You see, the Arab world also did help a lot in supplying the Western Europe with gas, you know, once they shut down the pipes from Russia.
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Unknown A
So I think the Biden administration blew Them up.
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Unknown B
Right, we heard about that.
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Unknown A
Did you hear about that?
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Unknown B
I know that unfortunately.
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Unknown A
Why would the Germans allow their allies in Washington to blow up their natural gas pipeline and not say anything about it?
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Unknown B
You said that, you know, and you should answer that question.
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Unknown A
I have some theories. But you're saying that, that all their ideas are leading to their destruction.
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Unknown B
Yeah, no, I think at least they're leading to their. Look, they have so many problems in West Europe and unfortunately they are not being acknowledged. And you have seen them a lot of right wing parties like in France, Le Pen, for example, coming very strongly and she may well win the elections a few years from now. So all this causing the right wing to come up very strongly unless they wake up so fast and do some quick remedies to their economical policies and also their political system.
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Unknown A
It's just funny to hear you say that. So in Europe you often hear say it's a battle between, you know, the native population and the Muslim immigrants. Here you are a Muslim with prayer beads in your hand saying you want more right wing parties in Europe.
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Unknown B
Well, you know, I really am asking for, to be more, more, more centrist for sure. Look at for example Melanie when she ran, she ran on a very right wing policy.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
But when she took over, she just went to center. That's true. When you reign, when you take power, you are forced to be more pragmatic. She's a pragmatic lady and her policies are very logical and centrist. So many policies of the left wing really failed in Europe, did not work. And I really hope that they go back to center and find really take major decisions to really jump start the process like Trump is doing out in America. America. Trump is shaking up the whole US Political system. Political system, economic system. Even now we have serious tariffs now. I mean this is still, you know, we're on uncharted territory. We don't know where it's going to be heading. We don't know if these tariffs are there to stay or that they, they're there for negotiating tool to reach some conclusions with Canada and Mexico.
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Unknown A
Well, you've negotiated with Trump against Trump, you know, to buy the plaza and his boat. What do you think?
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Unknown B
Well, when negotiating was a businessman. Now he's the leader of the strongest country in the world, the United States of America. I think with Trump, if you come with him straight and not necessarily succumb to what he's asking for, but if you're logical and pragmatic with him, you can reach a conclusion, a deal and very fast.
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Unknown A
How Long did it take you to negotiate the purchase of the plaza?
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Unknown B
Less than a week.
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Unknown A
Less than a week, yes.
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Unknown B
And his boat? Less than a week. Very swift, very fast.
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Unknown A
So you think the tariffs are just an opening round in negotiations?
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Unknown B
Possibly. We don't know yet. Possibly. Possibly. But 25% tariffs on, you know, on both the northern neighbor and southern neighbor, Canada and Mexico are pretty high. You've seen now how the auto industry was devastated today. They're down more than 10, 15%.
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Unknown A
Sure. In trading. But the industry itself is.
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Unknown B
Yeah, sure. It's too early to judge. Frank speaking. That's a trading, you know, because today they announced the system. Today is Monday. They're going to announce. It was announced just now. And the instantaneous reflection on that was a negative, obviously on the auto industry.
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Unknown A
So, you know, getting into a trade war with Canada and China, both of whom are totally dependent on the United States, they couldn't exist with the US Is different from doing that with China. How does that work?
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Unknown B
Well, look, China, I was reading yesterday that China Xi Jinping did not really answer, not reply yet. This thing is time. He's composed. You know, it's more long term. Look, China, look, his Dynasty has been 44,000 years old. So really one year, one month, four years of tenure of any president, really. They're not too fast in replying. We have seen Chinese government officially reply yet. We've seen Trudeau see Mexico replying already very aggressively in putting similar tariffs, especially in Canada. So we have not seen the reply of China yet. But China for sure is different. Behemoth completely is different ballgame.
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Unknown A
Do you believe the story about Deep seek? Their, their AI project, that it was developed for under $6 million. And is that, is that.
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Unknown B
Yeah, look, we're investors with Musk and Musk is a genius of our era and clearly, you know, he's very conservative in the way spend. Now we put to them, you know, billions of dollars in having all these big mega centers being built in the United states. So really $5.6 million for this deep sea. I really doubt this a little bit. So. And we're still very early part of this developing story to see if it's true or not and to see whether they steal anything from OpenAI or, or where the truth is. Exactly. But, but you know, I think you have to give it some more time to, to see where the deep sea seek fit in the overall AI equation globally.
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Unknown A
So there's, I mean, by far the biggest real estate investments in the US and probably around the world are in data Centers for AI and other processing. Can those data centers run on windmills and batteries?
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Unknown B
Well, you have seen now many of those big companies now are trying to go other paths, you know, nuclear, nuclear. So we are really very much in the early innings about all what's happening. But you know, our bet, frankly speaking, is on Musk, on the AI, on the AI game. We are invested with them in the first round and second round, we're backing them all the way. And you've seen very strong, strong alliance between X and X. There is a lot of relationship between them that's really causing a lot of positive for both companies. Yes, yes.
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Unknown A
But you know, for the past 15 years, the rest of us have been getting lectures about renewable energy, the green agenda, carbon zero, basically. Hydrocarbons are bad, solar windmills are good. And the second it became clear that AI would need a lot more energy than projected, people like Larry Fink said, well, you know, maybe we look to, maybe it's a, you know, it's a whole bunch of different energy sources. Do you think the green agenda is over thanks to AI?
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Unknown B
Well, for sure. With the Trump election, the green revolution now has diminished a little bit. You know, it's not as being in the prime time, as if I can use this term now. It's there, but I don't think it's going to be so much as being number one priority for the, for the Trump administration. You know that.
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Unknown A
I know that the number one priority.
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Unknown B
Yeah, I know maybe number nine or ten.
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Unknown A
But other, I mean, your peers in business, big investors have been pushing green energy projects, all subsidized by various governments. Do you think that will stop? Do you think we'll stop getting lectures about how windmills are the future?
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Unknown B
No, it will not stop. Frank speaking. You know, I know Bill Gates. You know, we are partners with him in many projects and we have with him a project called the Bev, the breakthrough energy venture that is invested in, you know, hundreds of companies that are in, in non carbon energy and they're moving, frankly speaking, moving ahead. So I think, you know, they'll still be there, but it will not be the same momentum and same ump.
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Unknown A
Do you think the United States will change its relationship with Venezuela? Because if Venezuela's oil reserves.
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Unknown B
Well, we have seen the US Emissary yesterday being there, he met Maduro in Venezuela and I think was very cooperative. He gave him some hostages and he welcomed getting back all the immigrants. So he was very welcoming and I'm sure Mr. Trump will love this. So we have to, it has to remain to be seen. Because Venezuela, frankly speaking, they have a lot of oil reserves, you know, more than 280 billion barrels.
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Unknown A
So I think they have the deepest reserves in the world. Proven reserves.
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Unknown B
Exactly, exactly. So I don't know what's the ultimate policy for Mr. Trump. Trump is a very sophisticated man and I think the fact that his mystery went immediately to Venezuela, whereby, you know, they had, you have no relationship between both countries now and Venezuela was very welcoming. So that story you have to, you have to follow and because it's developing story.
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Unknown A
Well, I mean we've, we've spent the last, I don't know, 10 years trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government, unsuccessfully, quite unsuccessfully, but then in one day, all of a sudden Venezuela says, yeah, here are all your hostages and flies the American flag in Maduro's office. Like what, what is this?
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Unknown B
Yeah, well, I mean this is a trumpet summary, quick summary.
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Unknown A
What would happen if the US did some sort of big energy deal with Venezuela?
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Unknown B
Well, I, I'm, I'm, look, at the end of the day, Trump is pragmatic. Trump also has good allies in Saudi Arabia, in uae, in Qatar. We're always friends, you know, I mean even if, well is, is being blessed by United States doesn't mean that they can go and produce 2, 3 million barrels within, within months or weeks. So it's going to take them time to go back. You know, they're all, what they have has been obsolete and Frank speaking, no new equipment has come to their, so, so even the capacity of, they can't produce more than 3 million barrels. So that's still okay. You know, it will not really impact the whole industry dramatically. It will impact it for sure, but.
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Unknown A
Not necessarily devastated, but over time and it takes a while to build the infrastructure necessary to efficiently extract it. But I mean, over the next 10 years you could see cheaper oil prices as a result of that, right?
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Unknown B
Well, for sure. I mean, that's why Saudi Arabia is transitioning from being an oil based country into being a diversified economy. So that's why we're investing heavily in tourism, we're investing heavily into new minerals. We're investing into, into other alternatives to oil. We are diversifying our economy in many areas. So really when the price of oil do sink to below 70 or $60, we have other alternatives really to withstand the heat, understand the pressure of having less oil, less price of oil.
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Unknown A
It's just funny that, you know, it was a year ago, if you talk to any big investor, at least in public, they would say no, no, the future is not more drilling for oil. The future is more windmills and solar panels. But you are saying actually the future sounds like it's more drilling for oil.
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Unknown B
Well, what I'm saying is a Trump, you know, a drill, baby, drill, you know, I mean, Trump wants the price of oil to go down. Yeah, clearly. But also Trump also has his eye on the fracking United States because.
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Unknown A
The.
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Unknown B
Average cost to produce a barrel of fracking oil is also in the 50s to 60s also.
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Unknown A
Right.
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Unknown B
So he doesn't want that also to go off. So there's a balance here to what Mr. Trump can do.
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Unknown A
Obviously, you can put your own domestic extractors out of business.
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Unknown B
Exactly. You don't do that. So you want to balance it. Now, clearly, Trump came with a lot of, you know, with lot of momentum. But then today, you know, when he has discussions with Saudi Arabia and with other OPEC countries, do you know that also Saudi Arabia wants the interest of the consumers to be taken into consideration.
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Unknown A
Right. There are a lot of competing interests on the question of price per barrel. What do you think the kind of right number balancing all that is?
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Unknown B
It's very difficult to judge this, really. It all depends on supply and demand, frankly. And you see China, China also has a big role in that. And you see the economy of China right now is moving in the 5, 6% growth direction every year. So, you know, there are a lot of factors that contribute into this in this whole big equation.
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Unknown A
Do you think I know that? Obviously, Donald Trump wants it in the 60s. Do you think we'll see it there for barrel?
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Unknown B
I hope not, frankly speaking, because I have this for Saudi Arabia.
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Unknown A
Yes.
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Unknown B
You know, I don't want to be 60, but I think long term, there's no doubt that the price of oil is heading not necessarily to the 100, but at least to where it is now. 670, 80.
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Unknown A
Okay. You think it'll stay there?
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Unknown B
I think so.
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Unknown A
I want to tell you about an amazing documentary series from our friend Sean Stone called All the President's Men, the Conspiracy Against Trump. It is a series of interviews with people at the very heart of the first Trump term, many of whom are close to the heart of the second Trump term. This is their stories about what permanent Washington tried to do to them, in many cases, send them to prison for the crime of supporting Donald Trump. Their words have never been more relevant than they are now. Steve Bannon, Kash Patel. I'm in there. Even all the President's Men, the Conspiracy Against Trump. And you will find it only on TCN. Tucker Carlson.com. highly recommended. You made a big bet on Russian energy right after the war in Ukraine started. 2022, I think with Luke Oil, Gazprom, Russia, I think those three.
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Unknown B
Correct. You invested in three companies.
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Unknown A
How'd you do?
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Unknown B
Well, we did do well, frankly speaking. You know, we did sell part of it and we did with some small profit. And now we still have some stake there.
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Unknown A
So the war starts in Ukraine and everyone's running away from Russia and Russian energy. The world is, you know, reorienting away from hydrocarbons in general. And you swoop in and make a huge bet on traditional Russian energy. Why'd you do that?
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Unknown B
This was part of our, you know, investment philosophy and policy. You know, we invested in so many companies that year in Western Europe, United States, and these three Russian companies were among them.
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Unknown A
Right. But other people were not doing that. Why did you do that?
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Unknown B
We are sometimes contrarian and successfully so.
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Unknown A
If you were to pick apart from AI and energy, like another two or three industries that you think are a good bet moving forward.
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Unknown B
Technology.
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Unknown A
What kind?
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Unknown B
Well, look, we are invested, very heavily invested in technology. For example, in China, we are in many companies like Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Didi. You know, Baidu is very heavily involved also in artificial intelligence. In America, we are also invested in. We are meta. We are X xai in Snapchat. We are many companies also in America. So we have a diversified portfolio in technology. We are also in hospitality, you know, in Four Seasons and Accor, and we have very diversified portfolio.
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Unknown A
So you're in Alibaba. Ten years ago, a little over ten years ago, Jack Ma was a very famous person in the United States. He was doing his roadshow with JP Morgan. Everyone loved Jack Ma. Company gets, you know, one of the biggest market caps in the world. And then Jack Ma disappears. Whatever happened to Jack Ma?
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Unknown B
You know, I know Jack Ma very well.
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Unknown A
I bet you do.
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Unknown B
Yeah, I used to meet him always at the Microsoft meeting with Bill Gates. You know, I think you know Jack Ma really, you know, you know, China look is a centralized political system. And I think he went a bit too far, you know, with the. I'm being very frank with you. He went a bit too far in his being outspoken against the regime and against the communist system. So he was just told to. Just to cool it down a little bit. And I think that's what happened. He's now in a cooling down period. He's in a cooling down.
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Unknown A
Are his whereabouts known?
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Unknown B
No, he's settling between Japan and China. He's coming in our public a little bit right now, but he's not as high profile as before.
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Unknown A
Yeah, no, he's not. Can the United States has a big military footprint in East Asia, mostly in Korea and Japan, but also other countries. Can that continue?
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Unknown B
Well, look, as I told you, that America is a big force to be reckoned with. America is an empire. Now, we don't call empires these days, but America is an empire. You know, you have hegemony on the whole world, and America is a force to be listened to. So I think these, these, these bases are very important to stay there, to counter what's, what's going on with China also. Yes. So I know America now is being more somehow a bit ISO. Isolationist in its approach. But, you know, I think once Trump, you know, get more in the second term, he will acknowledge the fact that America needs to have these, this presence in all these areas to keep the strength of America consolidated.
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Unknown A
So you say that as a big investor in Chinese companies, you want to see American troops in Asia stay there?
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Unknown B
Well, I mean, this, I mean, in China, not necessarily against China, but you have a crazy guy in North Korea.
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Unknown A
You know, who's really a proxy for China, though. I mean, you know, but, but, you.
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Unknown B
Know, it's still easy. It was canon also. Yeah, then they. I know. I mean, he, he, he does take orders from China and somehow from Russia. But also he's a very independent guy. And Rus can also.
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Unknown A
Do you know him?
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Unknown B
No, I don't know him.
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Unknown A
You have no North Korean investments at all?
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Unknown B
No North Korean at all. If I'm going to go there, I'll ask Trump to introduce me to him. He's his friend. It was a bold move from President Trump to meet him.
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Unknown A
Oh, I was there. It was a bold move. There's no doubt about it. And he took a lot of criticism. I mean, what do you mean? Since you're from the Middle East, I would say your mother was Lebanese. You're related to people in power in a bunch of different countries. It's very common here for people, for adversaries to meet and talk. In the west, in the last couple decades, the idea has been, if we disagree with you, we're not talking to you. What do you think of that?
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Unknown B
No, I am, frankly speaking, I'm very much supporting what Trump does here to talk to his adversaries. I think it's a plus. I mean, for example, now we hear that Trump is going to open communication with Putin on Ukraine. I think I'm for it, frankly speaking, you know, unless you engage how can you reach a conclusion? Agreement or arrangement? I am for Frank speaking. I think that's very bold from him to meet the leader of North, North Korea. Yes.
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Unknown A
How would you describe Putin?
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Unknown B
Well, Putin is, you know, is a very smart man and he calculates very well his moves. You know, he's, he's a, he's a very smart guy. And clearly one of the things he said he feels sorry for the day that the Soviet Union disintegrated into all these 15 republics. So he has this empire mentality in him. It's in him, it's in his mind for sure. He still craves for the Soviet Union empire and the tsarist empire that used to be there before the revolution happened in 1917.
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Unknown A
Yes, everyone wants an empire. Do you think China wants an empire?
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Unknown B
Look, China, I think they have 1.3 billion people. I think the first priority really is to control their domestic situation and have growth because look, China is a big problem. Look, you have a very open capitalistic economical system in China, yet the political system is very centralized, authoritarian and communist. Obviously. Now these two don't go well together. So the question now until when these two could happen and continue. China is very concerned about this internal situation, obviously, and they want to have this growth happening to really, to have its people migrate from being the poor level to being middle class. Yes. So I think that's the main worry frankly is being Russia for foreseeable future.
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Unknown A
But couldn't you say that about a lot of countries? Like if you had a monarchy that was liberalizing its economy and opening itself to the world, had a state religion, had, you know, a thousand year old culture, wouldn't you be worried? I mean, how would that work? How could you maintain political control?
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Unknown B
Look, I think you're alluding to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region, which is fine, which is fine, nothing wrong. Look, look, we talk very free and openly. Look, Saudi Arabia has legitimacy and you know, I just said in one interview few weeks ago, look at the six monarchies in the Arab world. Yes. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, uae, Oman, Kuwait, these six monarchies, add to them Morocco, add to it Jordan. These are eight monarchies. Look how I'm not segregated, how good they're doing, how stable they are. That is true, how legitimate they are. Look at Jordan, look at the neighborhood of Jordan around it. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Israel and Hamas. And look how stable it is right now. Now clearly it's still very difficult situation there. Eight markets, compare them with the other 14 republics in the Arab world. There are 22, obviously there's no comparison between them.
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Unknown B
So we have legitimacy here when the monarch is headed by Saudi Arabia and the other seven countries.
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Unknown A
I mean, of course I disagree with you as an American, but I agree with you as a traveler. What you're saying is obviously true. But in our system, legitimacy comes from the consent of the governed. Our leaders are legitimate because we vote for them. No one votes for your Crown Prince. But it's also true that your country is thriving and the other seven monarchies you mentioned are doing well relative to the Republic. So why do you think that's true?
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Unknown B
If you go to the public here and rate Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, he will get 70 to 80%, if not 90% approval rating. I think that's true, to be honest with you. Yeah, I believe that this says it all. Frankly speaking. People would like to get stability, wants continuity, wants to be sure that the economy is doing well. People are fed up from all these wars and all these turmoils and they see what's happening to the neighborhood. We've seen what's happening in, for example, in our Gulf region, Saudi led by Saudi Arabia. We see what's happening in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen. We don't want all that. We don't want all that. So really, frankly speaking, we are very happy country here. All the Saudis are very happy with what's going on. Crown Prince is very popular. King Salman is beloved by everybody here. So frankly speaking, forget the elections, we're happy, we're okay.
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Unknown A
Well, I disagree with you in theory, but agree with you in practice because it's just what you're saying is it's just true, it's a fact. I don't want it to be a fact, but it is a fact. So what is that? I mean, democracy is just a kind of brief interlude in all human history. It's a pretty new thing. I mean, do you think it has a future?
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Unknown B
What do you mean by democracy? I mean in our region.
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Unknown A
Well, if you're saying, I don't know, I mean, you're saying that all the republics in your region are struggling, all the monarchies are thriving and that is roughly speaking true. There are other factors.
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Unknown B
We have seen what happened to the so called Bush democracy in Iraq. We have seen what happened there, that how could this whole thing collapse completely? You know, Iraq is a republic. Correct. And we had the elections there and we see the results. We don't want that confusion, chaos. Look, we have monarchies, we're happy with them, people are happy. That's what counts. For us, to be honest with you, with all respect to Americans, with respect to Tucker Carlson, my friend, you know, we're happy with our systems and we will continue with it.
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Unknown A
What is crypto exactly?
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Unknown B
Well, crypto, you know, is a new system, you know, of a currency system that, you know, I don't buy. Frankly speaking. I, you know, we not invest in crypto at all. And I don't think it's for us at all. But it's there, it's facts right now.
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Unknown A
It'S a huge part of the fastest growing sectors of the American economy.
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Unknown B
But still, you know, I'm not a believer in that at all. Why I will not invest there in crypto. You know, I just, it's not regulated. Well, it is. You know, many us big businessmen do agree with me on that subject. You know, I don't understand it very well. And it is new form of currency that is really, is very, very confusing for me and complicated. And I don't understand is it a currency or is it, I mean, form of payment?
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Unknown A
It was, that's what it was supposed to be. But from what I can tell, it's like an, it's something that you invest in. Yeah, I mean kind of imaginary gold.
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Unknown B
We have so many other investments to the world is full investments and better investments to invest in. And we never invested in crypto and we never invest in crypto.
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Unknown A
You're never going to invest in crypto. Then why are the, I mean the banks, big banks in the United States, I mean all your friends, they're all in crypto.
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Unknown B
Some of they are forced to. I mean even JP Morgan that never believed in that, now they're forced to. I mean, sometimes you have facts that you have to go with, but you know, not necessarily with full conviction, but they are forced to go with it, unfortunately.
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Unknown A
Why are they forced?
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Unknown B
Well, look, many other banks are doing it, so they are forced for the clients. So many, many clients believe in crypto. Many clients in the world believe in crypto. And so they have to reflect the needs and the wishes of their own clients. So they go that reluctantly, huh?
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Unknown A
I mean, if, if you have enough assets invested in crypto, at some point it becomes kind of dangerous, doesn't it?
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Unknown B
For sure, definitely. You know, you know, I believe it could be a time bomb waiting to explode. I could be wrong. But that, that's my own belief. And that's the belief of the head of, of Jimmy Morgan also Jimmy Dimon.
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Unknown A
You think he still thinks that?
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Unknown B
He thinks that. And actually when he was in, in Davos, they asked him a question. He Refused to comment on it completely. I saw his interview. He declined to comment on it because he is fed up from saying it's bad, bad, bad, bad.
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Unknown A
So he's just giving up and not comment?
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Unknown B
Yeah, exactly. That's what's happening.
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Unknown A
Huh? Are any other countries in this region embracing crypto?
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Unknown B
Yeah, there are some countries, you know, yeah, some, but not heavily. Not heavily.
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Unknown A
What about gold?
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Unknown B
No, gold. Gold is. You know, many countries have gold as one of their investments. For sure. Yes.
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Unknown A
Are you an investor in gold?
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Unknown B
No, no, but we do have some small portfolio of gold, but nothing major. Nothing major? No, nothing major.
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Unknown A
Do you expect it to go much higher?
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Unknown B
Well, you know, I mean, it goes up and down, like, based on supply and demand, you know, but to us, really, it's not a pr. You know, gold. They were not very heavily invested in the gold.
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Unknown A
For your country, for Saudi Arabia, you've opened it up very dramatically, both physically opened it up, you're issuing visas to everybody, which you were not doing ever, but you've opened it up socially. Women in the workforce getting rid of guardianship, women driving, most famously. What are the reforms, the liberalizations that you wouldn't do here? Where will you draw the line?
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Unknown B
Look, Saudi Arabia opened a lot since 1950, since 2015, when King Salman took over and Prince Mohammed bin Salman got in charge of the local situation, and we opened up a lot. And I'm very happy with this complete liberalization of the economy socially, whereby women, Women became incorporated in the society. Equal opportunity. Women can thrive now. Basically, it's a normalization of the woman incorporation into the society. Yes. So Prince Muhammad just made a woman equal to two men? Frankly speaking, yes. It was a big achievement for us because for many years before that, we were deprived from that. And I called for that many years ago, and thanks God happened. So really, there's no limit to where we can go, but obviously, you know, no one wants to go beyond the limit. You know, it's just like America. You know, if you do. You do everything within the law, within the legal system, it's acceptable.
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Unknown B
Yeah, that's what's happening here. You know, our country became normal. We normalize the situation with all our countries in the world.
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Unknown A
Well, normal in the west is, you know, well, alcohol, for one thing, legalized marijuana, transgender teachers, transgender admirals. I mean, are there points where you say, we don't want that?
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Unknown B
No, look, frankly speaking, I'm very conservative. You know, I lived in America. You know, I'm anti alcohol, and I'm very happy that my country has no Alcohol, frankly speaking. And I don't mind that at all. I'm a very liberal man socially, yet I'm very conservative when it comes to, for example, using drugs or alcohol. I'm very much against that. So. So these are off the limits for us for sure. And we will not accept that in Saudi Arabia.
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Unknown A
So you can have tourism without alcohol.
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Unknown B
It's happening already. That's true. It's happening already, to be honest with you. And if it's happening already, so it's been tested already right now. So frankly speaking, the answer is yes, it's possible and it's happening.
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Unknown A
And do you think they'll stick with it? The government will stay?
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Unknown B
Well, you know, I think this for Saudi government to decide. Of course, I'm not government official. So far so good. But it's for the government to decide what are the next steps on that front.
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Unknown A
So in our country we had prohibition of alcohol for 14 years.
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Unknown B
Yes.
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Unknown A
And it is described to everybody, I mean, universally believed to be a massive failure. I don't know if that's actually true, but that's how history has recorded it. But that's, I mean, you think it's a success here? Why do you.
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Unknown B
Look, look, look. Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country. Religion is very an integral part of our society. Yes. And not having alcohol here is not really something that says people are miss a lot. You know, clearly when you have a western come here, for sure he would like to have some alcohol. I mean, there's no need to deny that, obviously. But I think to have an experience in Saudi Arabia without alcohol is something to be tried. But then do they me it's the government, Saudi government to decide if this policy to continue or not to continue. I'm going to continue in certain areas. You know, you've been to Red Sea, I think. Yes, in certain areas. If you would like to have this to be a permit or not, it's not for me, but I'm willing to live with both scenarios.
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Unknown A
It's just interesting because it's one of the last pretty sober societies in the world. I mean, and you've lived in a number of places. What are the differences?
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Unknown B
It's good to be sober.
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Unknown A
Yeah, it is good to be sober.
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Unknown B
It's nice to be sober. I'll quote you for that. Beautiful. To be sober. Love it. You're. You're something else.
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Unknown A
Takara, Prince Walid, thank you very much for taking all this time.
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Unknown B
Pleasure.
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Unknown A
Thank you. So it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show. On one level that's not surprising. That's what they do. But on another, on another level it's shocking with everything that's going on in the world right now, all the change taking place in our economy and our politics, with the wars we're on the cusp of fighting right now. Google has decided you should have less information rather than more and that is totally wrong. It's immoral. What can you do about it? Well, we could whine about it. That's a waste of time. We're not in charge of Google. Or we could find a way around it, a way that you could actually get, get information that is true, not intentionally deceptive. The way to do that on YouTube we think is to subscribe to our channel. Subscribe, hit the little bell icon to be notified when we upload and share this video.
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Unknown A
That way you'll have a much higher chance of hearing actual news and information. So we hope that you'll do that.